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and it hits me oh my gosh this is that

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triangle

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you know there's explanation for

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everything that occurred in the

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Rendlesham forest incident

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it doesn't involve aliens at all it was

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completely silent it comes right over

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our head it's so classic flying-saucer

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really standing in the clearing he

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turned over to my father and held his

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hand and he looked in his eyes and said

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we're not alone welcome to podcast UFO

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for our live show during the show feel

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free to participate live in our chat

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room and don't forget to like us on our

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very active Facebook page hello and

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welcome to the show I'm Martyn Willis

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your host and welcome tonight we have a

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great guest unfortunately Alejandro had

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to take someone to the airport and

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couldn't make the show however we did

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make an attempt to pre-record earlier we

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did talk a little bit so I actually want

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to talk about the conversation a little

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bit before I bring on our guests and I'm

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real excited about our guest I myself

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have had some interests in the aviation

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world in the past and so I'm excited to

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talk to Todd dr. Todd Curtis and he has

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his PhD in aviation risk assessment and

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so he also has an interest in UFOs and

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has looked into the topic and it's going

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to be really exciting I can't wait to

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talk to him

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so Alejandro basically when he and I

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were talking earlier today he was

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talking basically about the bob lazar

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movie he got a sneak preview and in that

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movie and I you know I mentioned that I

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if I had to bet on one side the other

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whether the Bob Lazar story was true or

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not all the way through I'd be more apt

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to doubt it than I would to think that

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it's those things really happened now

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I'm not saying I do have an open mind

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I'm gonna keep my mind open and I

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eventually will be watching the movie

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myself because he said that this film

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really makes you ask a lot more

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questions and he thinks it's he said he

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was

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kind of like feeling the way I do but

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he's kind of put it in his gray basket

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right now trying to decide for sure

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whether you know there's really

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something to it or not one of the things

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that you know I'm not going to give

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really a spoiler alert because I haven't

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seen it myself

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the trailer is great by the way anyone

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can find that on Google but you know as

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far as what happens in the film that he

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says will add some to the credibility is

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basically that there are independent

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people saying that they saw Bob Lazar in

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area 51 they worked with him one says

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but he remains an honor and those people

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are going on the record with their names

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as well what also came up was the person

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supposedly that gave him his clearance

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talks anonymously voice altered and all

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that so I always have a little bit of

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trouble those type of interviews whether

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to to actually believe them or not

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so we're live anyone can watch the show

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every Tuesday at 6 to 8 p.m. Eastern

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Standard Time it's on YouTube you can

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listen or watch life and it's also on

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whoops someone is saying that there's no

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audio and on YouTube so that that is not

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good let me see showing right here full

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let me just see if that is true some

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oh okay it's over at kgr a radio the

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hang on everyone I will figure out

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what's going on here okay so the audio

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is on YouTube and which means I'm just

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going to have to continue I'm sorry

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about kgr a radio I'm not sure what's

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going on over there all right

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so hang on I just got a message from

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over there and I just have to try to

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all right it's all set should be all set

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on kgr right here looks like I'll be

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doing a little editing for this podcast

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when it goes out so let's start I'm not

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going to start totally over again going

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to be talking to our guests about

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aviation safety and UFOs his name is dr.

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Todd Curtis I'm real excited to talk to

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him he'll be coming right up and a

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little bit here and Alejandro could not

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make the show I was going on talking

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about the Bob Lazar movie and my

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thoughts about him whether whether I

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thought there was some real credence to

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his story or not really I've been on the

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fence forever about it if I were to bed

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I'd bet that it's probably not so but

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also I do want to watch the movie

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because I understand the movie is quite

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convincing in a lot of ways so that is

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coming out and Jeremy corbels out there

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pumping that everywhere and so it should

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be an interesting movie regardless and

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so as I was mentioning ahead of time

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people can watch this show for free on

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YouTube every Tuesday at 6 to 8 p.m.

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Eastern Standard Time if all goes well I

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should say and over at kg are a radio on

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Thursday nights it's on over there at

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the Dark Matter digital network people

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can watch it over there and it's always

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up on youtube if you want to support the

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show the first part of the show is

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always about 30 minutes to an hour for

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free anybody can listen to that as a

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podcast if you wanted it to listen to

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the full show on your media player all

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you have to do is support us for a

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couple

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or more per month or yearly payments

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however you want to work that out that

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information is over at podcast UFO calm

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and do check out the website we do get

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some blogs in there we also have a real

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active Facebook page and you can like

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that and every day it's updated I try to

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update it on the weekends but it's not

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always on on the weekends but anyway so

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I am getting ready to welcome our guests

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and Todd Curtis welcome to the show

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well thanks for having me and yes then

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thank you for being here and I we kind

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of met in a kind of a roundabout way

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actually and I want to owe that in

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thanks to oops let me hang on just a

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second here I want to I want to give the

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thanks to Ray Stanford because you

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actually contacted me and you were

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looking to buy Ray's book so you listen

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to the show and that's how it all

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started and I said hey wait a minute you

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are an air safety guy let's talk about

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that so and I think it's fascinating

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that you have an interest in UFOs

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because it's you know it's kind of a

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taboo subject in the aviation field and

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and I guess up I want you to talk about

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your background but before we actually

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go there can you also talk about have

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you had any ridicule because of your

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interest in UFOs

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very minor primarily through the things

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I've published on my website in the past

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I've actually had a interview with it

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Leslie Cain after a book came out about

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UFOs and government documents and

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generals this was I think 2014 and also

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Richard Haines of NAR cap I interviewed

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him for one of my podcast and there was

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just a minor pushback but nothing major

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I've actually Richards a nice great guy

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about I met him down in North Carolina

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several years ago and and real

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interesting guy really enjoyed meeting

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him and talking to him and but he won't

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come on my show and the reason you know

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he's very clear about it he says you

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know you have the word UFO and the title

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of your show and I don't want to be

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associated with anything

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to do with you you have hosts and that

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kind of gives you an idea of how the

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name is sort of tarnished or maybe

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overuse and abuse because you know

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really it means an unidentified flying

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object but people do associate it with

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you know aliens you mentioned the word

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UFO it's just like saying flying saucers

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you know people are going to be critical

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of the word and people interested in the

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field because they think you're talking

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it's got to be aliens what are your

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thoughts on all that well it's that

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quite simple from my perspective which

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is my backgrounds in aviation safety

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I started off some years ago oh my

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goodness back in the 80s as a flight

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test engineer in the Air Force and I

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transition into the civilian side of

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things working aviation safety now I was

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at Boeing for quite a few years during

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the development of the triple 7 was the

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main part of my time there and that's

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where I really developed an interest in

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looking at all sorts of angles with

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respect to things that could be a threat

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to the aircraft either on the ground or

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in the sky and when it came to unknowns

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in the sky well clearly some of them are

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our unknown phenomena that are weather

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related and can be scientifically

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studied but when they first are noticed

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by people it might engender all sorts of

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fear

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I remember reading a story quite a few

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years ago about Jets and sprites which

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are basically upper atmospheric

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lightning they had been observed by

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pilots decades ago but it's the kind of

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thing where if these pilots primarily

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military had reported these things even

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though these were related we found

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scientifically valid this was something

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that had nothing to do with flying the

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airplane and had nothing to do with

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their mission and reporting that could

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put them on out of flight status so even

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if there is nothing alien about it

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reporting something that's unusual it

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has nothing to do with the mission could

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put your career in jeopardy same for the

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civilian world airline pilots are some

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of the most well respected and also

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scrutinized professions out there any

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number of things that they do and their

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personal life could come back to haunt

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them in their professional life and

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reporting on things in the sky that

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again have nothing to do with flying the

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airplane have nothing to do with the

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operation of the aircraft there's

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nothing to do with the bottom line

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it's not their interest in their

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interest to do so would you if you had

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to guess or theorize would you say that

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of its a very small percentage of

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commercial pilots that will actually

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report a unidentified flying object I

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would say it's a vanishingly small

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primarily because there's no formal

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process that the FAA or the Department

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of Defense or anyone else has out there

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that says we are an official agency

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dealing with aviation matters if you see

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something that's unusual that could be a

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vehicle that is a not made by Boeing or

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Airbus and is interesting and unusual

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please report it to us there's nothing

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like that there are some ways that

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pilots or anyone else in in society can

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report things to an official government

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body but not explicitly for unknown

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phenomenon such as this

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you've mentioned Richard Haines and NAR

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cap so that is one organization thank

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goodness it's there you know there there

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is a place for them to go but one thing

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and I've had I've had I'm trying to

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remember the the the main person there

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right now on this show it was actually

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my first youtube show he was on that and

273
00:12:30,310 --> 00:12:25,910
we're friends I just lost his name right

274
00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:30,320
now but anyway great guy and he was

275
00:12:36,670 --> 00:12:31,850
willing to be on the show even though it

276
00:12:41,590 --> 00:12:36,680
was you know show about UFOs but I just

277
00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:41,600
wondered do they contact anyone with the

278
00:12:47,550 --> 00:12:44,930
reports or are those reports accessible

279
00:12:49,660 --> 00:12:47,560
like to say for instance all of a sudden

280
00:12:52,030 --> 00:12:49,670
you know the government may have an

281
00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:52,040
interest in a case do they actually

282
00:12:56,319 --> 00:12:54,130
contact NAR cap are you aware of that

283
00:12:59,140 --> 00:12:56,329
I'm not aware of any official government

284
00:13:01,840 --> 00:12:59,150
outreach to organizations like NAR cap

285
00:13:04,630 --> 00:13:01,850
or the national UFO Reporting Center or

286
00:13:07,090 --> 00:13:04,640
other privately run organizations that

287
00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:07,100
collect collate and analyze a unknown

288
00:13:12,190 --> 00:13:10,370
data UFO data unknown aerial phenomena

289
00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:12,200
data call it what you will I don't know

290
00:13:16,870 --> 00:13:13,850
if no government outreach to do that I

291
00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:19,120
I'm sort of surprised a little bit

292
00:13:23,170 --> 00:13:21,170
because you know there's there's been a

293
00:13:25,180 --> 00:13:23,180
number of years has been speculation

294
00:13:29,170 --> 00:13:25,190
that MUFON there's some type of

295
00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:29,180
connection there with MUFON and I know

296
00:13:33,820 --> 00:13:30,530
it's conspiratorial

297
00:13:38,110 --> 00:13:33,830
but you know there have been some links

298
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:38,120
between the government and MUFON you

299
00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:42,410
know Bob Bigelow there's also for

300
00:13:49,870 --> 00:13:44,210
instance ray stanford who was on the

301
00:13:51,730 --> 00:13:49,880
show we talked one time about there was

302
00:13:56,230 --> 00:13:51,740
some shell company that was funding a

303
00:13:58,540 --> 00:13:56,240
MUFON event that actually had ties to

304
00:14:01,920 --> 00:13:58,550
the government so it's it's it's pretty

305
00:14:05,110 --> 00:14:01,930
interesting and I I don't really know

306
00:14:08,310 --> 00:14:05,120
other than getting data you know why

307
00:14:12,310 --> 00:14:08,320
they would be doing anything like that

308
00:14:14,170 --> 00:14:12,320
well who knows all the mysterious ways

309
00:14:16,450 --> 00:14:14,180
that government works and government in

310
00:14:18,330 --> 00:14:16,460
my opinion isn't some monolithic entity

311
00:14:20,830 --> 00:14:18,340
there are all sorts of institutions

312
00:14:23,170 --> 00:14:20,840
organizations individuals who are their

313
00:14:25,420 --> 00:14:23,180
own agendas some of them are consistent

314
00:14:27,340 --> 00:14:25,430
with a major policy issues of the high

315
00:14:29,950 --> 00:14:27,350
level others could be personal interest

316
00:14:31,690 --> 00:14:29,960
so the likelihood that some agent of

317
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:31,700
government or some part of government

318
00:14:35,500 --> 00:14:33,770
had some funding going to the private

319
00:14:38,250 --> 00:14:35,510
organizations like that perfectly

320
00:14:40,930 --> 00:14:38,260
plausible and again keep in mind that

321
00:14:42,610 --> 00:14:40,940
organizations like narc hat MUFON etc

322
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:42,620
they're private entities they're not

323
00:14:47,500 --> 00:14:44,210
publicly traded they don't have a

324
00:14:48,850 --> 00:14:47,510
requirement to have a full disclosure of

325
00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:48,860
their finances like a publicly traded

326
00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:51,290
company and as a private company they

327
00:14:56,070 --> 00:14:53,050
can have all sorts of things that are

328
00:15:00,010 --> 00:14:56,080
not necessarily nefarious but certainly

329
00:15:03,550 --> 00:15:00,020
not open to the public right now how

330
00:15:06,550 --> 00:15:03,560
about your air safecom have you yourself

331
00:15:09,700 --> 00:15:06,560
been contacted by anyone about the UFO

332
00:15:12,010 --> 00:15:09,710
topic at all or does that just do me

333
00:15:13,270 --> 00:15:12,020
that that never happens except the

334
00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:13,280
occasional email that might have

335
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:14,810
commented on one or two pieces of

336
00:15:18,850 --> 00:15:16,850
content I had either on the podcast on

337
00:15:20,530 --> 00:15:18,860
the website itself but as far as

338
00:15:22,690 --> 00:15:20,540
outreach from government are the only

339
00:15:24,820 --> 00:15:22,700
thing I can say indirectly looking at

340
00:15:27,100 --> 00:15:24,830
the logs of data and traffic that comes

341
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:27,110
to yes there are some domain names that

342
00:15:30,009 --> 00:15:29,210
are related to larger aviation

343
00:15:31,869 --> 00:15:30,019
organizations and

344
00:15:34,479 --> 00:15:31,879
government organizations that do visit

345
00:15:36,249 --> 00:15:34,489
my website but keep in mind that the

346
00:15:38,889 --> 00:15:36,259
vast majority of my website deals with

347
00:15:42,309 --> 00:15:38,899
airline aviation safety and security

348
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:42,319
events only small event with things that

349
00:15:47,229 --> 00:15:45,050
could be related to UFO so could some of

350
00:15:49,329 --> 00:15:47,239
that traffic be related that could be

351
00:15:53,319 --> 00:15:49,339
but I don't have that level of detailed

352
00:15:55,749 --> 00:15:53,329
knowledge of who did what when what do

353
00:15:57,850 --> 00:15:55,759
you think about I've talked to some

354
00:16:00,369 --> 00:15:57,860
skeptics that they say that an airline

355
00:16:02,710 --> 00:16:00,379
pilot is no better of an observer than

356
00:16:05,619 --> 00:16:02,720
anyone else I disagree with that what is

357
00:16:07,809 --> 00:16:05,629
your thoughts well if the airline pilot

358
00:16:08,199 --> 00:16:07,819
is observing a birthday party of a four

359
00:16:10,090 --> 00:16:08,209
year old

360
00:16:11,829 --> 00:16:10,100
yes that's they'd be no different than

361
00:16:13,689 --> 00:16:11,839
the average person but when it comes to

362
00:16:15,939 --> 00:16:13,699
looking at things in the sky we're

363
00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:15,949
talking a completely different situation

364
00:16:21,609 --> 00:16:18,170
here we're talking people who

365
00:16:23,079 --> 00:16:21,619
professionally study the sky they

366
00:16:25,090 --> 00:16:23,089
understand at least a little bit about

367
00:16:28,449 --> 00:16:25,100
meteorology they know something about

368
00:16:29,799 --> 00:16:28,459
the stars what stars look like it could

369
00:16:32,139 --> 00:16:29,809
be an aircraft if you're not looking

370
00:16:34,749 --> 00:16:32,149
carefully the satellites for example the

371
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:34,759
ISS which if it's flying over you if you

372
00:16:39,039 --> 00:16:36,410
didn't know any better you'd mistake it

373
00:16:41,799 --> 00:16:39,049
for an aircraft they know what things

374
00:16:43,539 --> 00:16:41,809
look like from above from below they

375
00:16:46,329 --> 00:16:43,549
know what looks normal with respect out

376
00:16:47,859 --> 00:16:46,339
of traffic they've seen traffic airline

377
00:16:49,419 --> 00:16:47,869
pilots they've seen traffic at their

378
00:16:51,639 --> 00:16:49,429
altitude above and below three years

379
00:16:53,499 --> 00:16:51,649
because flying to and fro around the

380
00:16:55,629 --> 00:16:53,509
world their various air routes that

381
00:16:58,989 --> 00:16:55,639
other airliners take so they would on a

382
00:17:01,840 --> 00:16:58,999
regular basis see aircraft of all types

383
00:17:03,429 --> 00:17:01,850
military and civilian so to say that

384
00:17:05,649 --> 00:17:03,439
they would not be able to recognize

385
00:17:07,629 --> 00:17:05,659
something as out of the ordinary be it a

386
00:17:09,189 --> 00:17:07,639
natural phenomenon or something it looks

387
00:17:11,799 --> 00:17:09,199
like a controlled flight of some sort of

388
00:17:13,689 --> 00:17:11,809
vehicle that's absurd airline pilots are

389
00:17:16,779 --> 00:17:13,699
a cut above compared to most other

390
00:17:19,929 --> 00:17:16,789
people have you yourself ever had any

391
00:17:22,389 --> 00:17:19,939
type of sighting there's only one time

392
00:17:24,159 --> 00:17:22,399
where I could say that I had a sighting

393
00:17:25,870 --> 00:17:24,169
of something that just didn't make any

394
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:25,880
sense to me and this was in Seattle and

395
00:17:30,460 --> 00:17:28,610
I say this because I happened to talk to

396
00:17:32,350 --> 00:17:30,470
a co-worker a couple days later he saw

397
00:17:34,690 --> 00:17:32,360
the same event he was about 20 miles

398
00:17:38,409 --> 00:17:34,700
south of me what this was was a very

399
00:17:41,950 --> 00:17:38,419
high flying extremely low low slow

400
00:17:43,900 --> 00:17:41,960
moving in very very stable contrail I've

401
00:17:46,090 --> 00:17:43,910
been looking at contrails all my life

402
00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:46,100
and I've seen them from large aircraft

403
00:17:51,700 --> 00:17:49,130
small aircraft this didn't behave like

404
00:17:54,670 --> 00:17:51,710
any contrail I'd seen before I'm not

405
00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:54,680
saying it wasn't any unusual vehicle it

406
00:17:58,650 --> 00:17:56,330
just looked to be a lot slower than

407
00:18:01,030 --> 00:17:58,660
usual I thought okay maybe to you too

408
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:01,040
but from where it was in Seattle I was

409
00:18:05,140 --> 00:18:02,090
looking to the northwest

410
00:18:06,820 --> 00:18:05,150
more or less toward the Northeast

411
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:06,830
Cheeseman northwest corner of the state

412
00:18:11,500 --> 00:18:09,530
of Washington and I'm thinking I don't

413
00:18:13,030 --> 00:18:11,510
know of any flight activity that's over

414
00:18:15,100 --> 00:18:13,040
there that would make sense

415
00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:15,110
there is a Naval Air Station and would

416
00:18:18,340 --> 00:18:16,970
be Island up be north of my position

417
00:18:20,470 --> 00:18:18,350
that would be between where this

418
00:18:23,170 --> 00:18:20,480
contrail was and where I was looking at

419
00:18:26,110 --> 00:18:23,180
it from but nothing at Whidbey Island

420
00:18:27,550 --> 00:18:26,120
was that kind of aircraft mess I stood

421
00:18:29,950 --> 00:18:27,560
there and looked at it for 20-30 minutes

422
00:18:31,660 --> 00:18:29,960
there's so much so that I said I'm gonna

423
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:31,670
see if this thing moves I'm gonna look

424
00:18:35,620 --> 00:18:33,770
at a distant object here which is like a

425
00:18:37,930 --> 00:18:35,630
radio tower I'm gonna see if this

426
00:18:39,850 --> 00:18:37,940
contrail moves in any way shape or form

427
00:18:43,300 --> 00:18:39,860
with this radio tower in the foreground

428
00:18:44,830 --> 00:18:43,310
and it did but extremely slowly and

429
00:18:46,030 --> 00:18:44,840
again I had a colleague I was at Boeing

430
00:18:47,410 --> 00:18:46,040
at the time had a colleague of mine I

431
00:18:49,630 --> 00:18:47,420
talked him about easy oh yeah I saw that

432
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:49,640
too and I thought if you saw this

433
00:18:53,710 --> 00:18:52,010
roughly the same angle to the horizon

434
00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:53,720
and he was like 20 miles south of me

435
00:18:58,720 --> 00:18:55,970
this thing had to be a fairly decent

436
00:19:00,400 --> 00:18:58,730
distance away was it over Canada was it

437
00:19:02,590 --> 00:19:00,410
over the Pacific I couldn't tell you

438
00:19:05,590 --> 00:19:02,600
never seen that kind of a contrail

439
00:19:09,190 --> 00:19:05,600
before since wow that's interesting now

440
00:19:12,580 --> 00:19:09,200
we talked earlier about the term UFO is

441
00:19:14,530 --> 00:19:12,590
that a taboo I think you mentioned in

442
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:14,540
one of your emails to me it's kind of a

443
00:19:18,790 --> 00:19:16,730
word you didn't really let leave your

444
00:19:22,630 --> 00:19:18,800
lips when you were talking to certain

445
00:19:24,250 --> 00:19:22,640
people so that's right yeah I was

446
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:24,260
actually interviewed for History Channel

447
00:19:30,730 --> 00:19:28,250
show some years ago about UFO events

448
00:19:34,120 --> 00:19:30,740
related to airliners including the Jemez

449
00:19:36,460 --> 00:19:34,130
Japan Airlines a cargo 747 in Alaska in

450
00:19:38,530 --> 00:19:36,470
the 1980s and I was trying to best my

451
00:19:40,570 --> 00:19:38,540
ability to not say the word UFO during

452
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:40,580
the interview because I thought okay if

453
00:19:44,710 --> 00:19:42,650
you're gonna put only seven seconds of

454
00:19:45,970 --> 00:19:44,720
me out of this show and put it out

455
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:45,980
somewhere and saying hey this is what

456
00:19:50,110 --> 00:19:48,650
Todd Kurtz believes if I had the words

457
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:50,120
UFO coming out of my mouth that would be

458
00:19:54,370 --> 00:19:52,010
one thing now if they saw the entire

459
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:54,380
show they could see it in context but

460
00:19:57,130 --> 00:19:56,210
knowing a little bit about how the media

461
00:19:58,660 --> 00:19:57,140
works

462
00:20:00,190 --> 00:19:58,670
the juiciest sound but is the one that

463
00:20:01,870 --> 00:20:00,200
ends up everywhere so I was very careful

464
00:20:04,120 --> 00:20:01,880
in that show that's right that's right

465
00:20:09,010 --> 00:20:04,130
so we will I do want to bring up and

466
00:20:10,539 --> 00:20:09,020
talk about the Jay al 16:28 case because

467
00:20:12,220 --> 00:20:10,549
that's a fascinating that's one of the I

468
00:20:15,669 --> 00:20:12,230
think it's one of the all-time great

469
00:20:17,380 --> 00:20:15,679
cases out there but before we do that

470
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:17,390
we're going to be going to break in a

471
00:20:22,930 --> 00:20:19,610
short bit and also I wanted to ask you

472
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:22,940
with your background and your website

473
00:20:31,299 --> 00:20:28,090
and your stature so to speak do you have

474
00:20:33,430 --> 00:20:31,309
do people take you seriously like if you

475
00:20:37,060 --> 00:20:33,440
actually wanted to inquire about an

476
00:20:41,039 --> 00:20:37,070
event I mean can you do have an ability

477
00:20:43,900 --> 00:20:41,049
to contact like for instance the Irish

478
00:20:45,789 --> 00:20:43,910
you know the incident that happened do

479
00:20:48,310 --> 00:20:45,799
you have the ability to contact an

480
00:20:51,370 --> 00:20:48,320
organization and ask about the research

481
00:20:52,740 --> 00:20:51,380
or something on that and I typically

482
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:52,750
don't do that for a couple of reasons

483
00:20:57,340 --> 00:20:55,850
first and you know I didn't talk about

484
00:20:58,780 --> 00:20:57,350
this at a time with you which are

485
00:21:00,100 --> 00:20:58,790
basically giving an advertisement for my

486
00:21:02,740 --> 00:21:00,110
first book which was called a

487
00:21:05,350 --> 00:21:02,750
understanding aviation safety data and I

488
00:21:06,970 --> 00:21:05,360
wrote this based on my work when I was

489
00:21:09,310 --> 00:21:06,980
in graduate school at MIT and plus my

490
00:21:11,830 --> 00:21:09,320
work at Boeing how do I go about finding

491
00:21:14,620 --> 00:21:11,840
things there were so much out there that

492
00:21:16,900 --> 00:21:14,630
is in the open waiting to be picked over

493
00:21:19,210 --> 00:21:16,910
that all you have to do is in my opinion

494
00:21:20,530 --> 00:21:19,220
know how to systematically ask and

495
00:21:22,419 --> 00:21:20,540
answer the question and look for those

496
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:22,429
sources of data that are reputable

497
00:21:27,250 --> 00:21:24,650
enough you can address those questions

498
00:21:29,380 --> 00:21:27,260
so the Irish Aviation Authority for

499
00:21:31,210 --> 00:21:29,390
instance they might be investigating

500
00:21:33,159 --> 00:21:31,220
event that happened a few weeks ago well

501
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:33,169
if a report ever comes out I'm sure

502
00:21:37,150 --> 00:21:34,730
it'll be available somewhere so rather

503
00:21:40,270 --> 00:21:37,160
than calling someone at the authority

504
00:21:42,730 --> 00:21:40,280
I'll just search their website search

505
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:42,740
various fora on the internet and if

506
00:21:46,270 --> 00:21:44,090
someone says hey the report just got

507
00:21:49,539 --> 00:21:46,280
published here's a URL that's my way of

508
00:21:51,820 --> 00:21:49,549
getting the information okay so you kind

509
00:21:56,140 --> 00:21:51,830
of go about it the same way that anybody

510
00:21:59,409 --> 00:21:56,150
could you don't try to use your status

511
00:22:01,840 --> 00:21:59,419
so to speak in any type of way special

512
00:22:03,820 --> 00:22:01,850
way and now and again this brings up

513
00:22:05,500 --> 00:22:03,830
something even further back I mentioned

514
00:22:07,630 --> 00:22:05,510
how I was a Air Force flight test

515
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:07,640
engineer well my last assignment the Air

516
00:22:10,290 --> 00:22:09,050
Force was at the National Security

517
00:22:12,450 --> 00:22:10,300
Agency

518
00:22:14,010 --> 00:22:12,460
in the National Cryptologic school and

519
00:22:15,660 --> 00:22:14,020
one of the things I learned from being

520
00:22:16,650 --> 00:22:15,670
in and around the intelligence community

521
00:22:19,140 --> 00:22:16,660
is real simple

522
00:22:20,850 --> 00:22:19,150
most of they're really really really

523
00:22:23,250 --> 00:22:20,860
really good information is out there in

524
00:22:25,050 --> 00:22:23,260
the open already it's more a question of

525
00:22:27,300 --> 00:22:25,060
knowing how to look and where to look

526
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:27,310
you don't need the fancy satellites or

527
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:29,770
James Bond or any that nonsense there's

528
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:32,650
plenty of information out there yeah and

529
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:36,250
us you know we're I wouldn't think we're

530
00:22:42,290 --> 00:22:38,770
too far apart in age you're probably a

531
00:22:45,930 --> 00:22:42,300
bit younger than me but we have seen the

532
00:22:47,490 --> 00:22:45,940
times going back to the analog days

533
00:22:49,620 --> 00:22:47,500
where everything was

534
00:22:52,830 --> 00:22:49,630
you know papers and files and all that

535
00:22:56,190 --> 00:22:52,840
and now everything is available online

536
00:22:59,190 --> 00:22:56,200
have you ever in any of the work that

537
00:23:01,550 --> 00:22:59,200
you've done in regards to air safety use

538
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:01,560
for you for your Freedom of Information

539
00:23:08,550 --> 00:23:06,490
requests for any documents that's a good

540
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:08,560
question I actually wrote about how to

541
00:23:12,300 --> 00:23:10,810
use for in my first book but I have it

542
00:23:15,900 --> 00:23:12,310
myself that had to resort to that

543
00:23:17,970 --> 00:23:15,910
because typically because I know enough

544
00:23:19,740 --> 00:23:17,980
institutions in the industry if I really

545
00:23:21,750 --> 00:23:19,750
needed something really obscure I'd

546
00:23:23,790 --> 00:23:21,760
simply go after that particular database

547
00:23:25,260 --> 00:23:23,800
or that particular library or I might

548
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:25,270
even have somebody in the industry who

549
00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:27,730
give me a heads up on it but actively

550
00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:30,370
going after a for your information I

551
00:23:36,390 --> 00:23:33,130
haven't had to do that interesting

552
00:23:39,750 --> 00:23:36,400
Wow okay so we are ready to go to break

553
00:23:42,570 --> 00:23:39,760
so my guest this evening is Todd Curtis

554
00:23:46,140 --> 00:23:42,580
and this is Martin Willis with podcast

555
00:23:53,659 --> 00:23:46,150
UFO and we'll be right back right after

556
00:24:01,860 --> 00:23:57,830
mark we're in the clear my friend

557
00:24:05,490 --> 00:24:01,870
4-minute right okay I heard four minutes

558
00:24:07,650 --> 00:24:05,500
something seconds so so let's see I'm

559
00:24:10,789 --> 00:24:07,660
just gonna look quickly through there's

560
00:24:17,220 --> 00:24:10,799
there's people up hosting some questions

561
00:24:19,740 --> 00:24:17,230
up on the chat room here and someone

562
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:19,750
there was no filming actually of the

563
00:24:22,409 --> 00:24:21,010
let's talk a little bit about the

564
00:24:24,419 --> 00:24:22,419
Ireland and we could talk about that

565
00:24:26,490 --> 00:24:24,429
during the regular show too but there

566
00:24:28,020 --> 00:24:26,500
was no filming of that in particular

567
00:24:32,419 --> 00:24:28,030
that I heard about I know there was a

568
00:24:35,220 --> 00:24:32,429
you know there's a voice recorder but

569
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:35,230
there's no access to any no one took any

570
00:24:39,149 --> 00:24:37,690
no pilot took any pictures or film or

571
00:24:40,950 --> 00:24:39,159
anything of that as far as you know in

572
00:24:44,820 --> 00:24:40,960
my knowledge there was no radar trace of

573
00:24:47,610 --> 00:24:44,830
that either no radar - a trace and which

574
00:24:49,740 --> 00:24:47,620
is interesting and you probably know

575
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:49,750
this already but that's not uncommon for

576
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:52,690
UFOs even when people see large

577
00:24:58,740 --> 00:24:56,770
structured vehicles well let me be more

578
00:25:00,990 --> 00:24:58,750
specific when it comes to radars used

579
00:25:02,850 --> 00:25:01,000
for air traffic control they're using

580
00:25:04,830 --> 00:25:02,860
primarily transponders to get

581
00:25:07,409 --> 00:25:04,840
information from the aircraft right yeah

582
00:25:08,700 --> 00:25:07,419
rather than primary a radar return off

583
00:25:10,470 --> 00:25:08,710
the skin paint the kind of thing in

584
00:25:12,450 --> 00:25:10,480
military radar would use so you could

585
00:25:14,730 --> 00:25:12,460
have something fly directly in line of

586
00:25:16,980 --> 00:25:14,740
sight of a air traffic control radar if

587
00:25:18,990 --> 00:25:16,990
there's no transponder on may not see

588
00:25:20,279 --> 00:25:19,000
that aircraft at all I didn't realize

589
00:25:22,980 --> 00:25:20,289
that I didn't realize that the

590
00:25:24,779 --> 00:25:22,990
transponder was their main source I

591
00:25:28,860 --> 00:25:24,789
thought it was always you know the

592
00:25:30,390 --> 00:25:28,870
typical radar so yeah interesting and

593
00:25:32,340 --> 00:25:30,400
there's a lot of talk about you know

594
00:25:34,980 --> 00:25:32,350
vehicles you know there is no

595
00:25:38,210 --> 00:25:34,990
transponder and he's these vehicles when

596
00:25:41,340 --> 00:25:38,220
they see them but that's interesting so

597
00:25:43,260 --> 00:25:41,350
we have you know we have three minutes

598
00:25:47,220 --> 00:25:43,270
or so left in this break or just about

599
00:25:50,250 --> 00:25:47,230
that and we didn't really talk much

600
00:25:51,810 --> 00:25:50,260
about your your background what got you

601
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:51,820
started in the aviation field you want

602
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:53,650
to talk a little bit about that again we

603
00:25:57,090 --> 00:25:54,610
have a couple minutes left

604
00:25:59,490 --> 00:25:57,100
well certainly I grew up in the 60s and

605
00:26:01,560 --> 00:25:59,500
early 70s in Texas and back then this

606
00:26:03,419 --> 00:26:01,570
was during the height of the Apollo

607
00:26:05,490 --> 00:26:03,429
program actually a latter part of the

608
00:26:06,990 --> 00:26:05,500
Gemini program and the Apollo program

609
00:26:08,460 --> 00:26:07,000
I remember watching

610
00:26:10,140 --> 00:26:08,470
Gemini launches when I was in elementary

611
00:26:11,310 --> 00:26:10,150
school I would have been like first

612
00:26:14,430 --> 00:26:11,320
second grade because we're talking about

613
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:14,440
sixty-five or so and like most other

614
00:26:18,180 --> 00:26:16,570
people in the country I was glued to the

615
00:26:20,670 --> 00:26:18,190
television when the space shots happened

616
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:20,680
and the astronauts in Texas were right

617
00:26:25,290 --> 00:26:22,090
up there with the Dallas Cowboys as far

618
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:25,300
as how much Fame they had so the fact

619
00:26:30,540 --> 00:26:28,810
and also to NASA's credit the Public

620
00:26:33,540 --> 00:26:30,550
Affairs Office was very very generous

621
00:26:35,460 --> 00:26:33,550
I'm still a little kid 9 10 12 years old

622
00:26:37,380 --> 00:26:35,470
writing in longhand to the public

623
00:26:40,380 --> 00:26:37,390
affairs office they would send me tons

624
00:26:42,360 --> 00:26:40,390
of stuff mission reports photographs I

625
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:42,370
mean all kinds of good stuff you know I

626
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:44,890
had George pull that stuff corona Wow so

627
00:26:48,390 --> 00:26:47,170
that was one of the reasons I thought

628
00:26:50,670 --> 00:26:48,400
hey this might be something interesting

629
00:26:52,170 --> 00:26:50,680
I also had an uncle who was living in

630
00:26:53,700 --> 00:26:52,180
California who was in the aerospace

631
00:26:55,260 --> 00:26:53,710
business as an engineer and another

632
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:55,270
uncle who worked at Douglas on the

633
00:27:00,020 --> 00:26:57,610
assembly line so I didn't think of

634
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:00,030
aviation is something that was you know

635
00:27:04,170 --> 00:27:02,410
beyond the realm it's like hey I got a

636
00:27:06,060 --> 00:27:04,180
couple uncle's doing this yeah I know

637
00:27:07,740 --> 00:27:06,070
that there's a business out there and

638
00:27:08,940 --> 00:27:07,750
there might still be some things even

639
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:08,950
though the space program sort of like

640
00:27:13,650 --> 00:27:10,570
wound down big time by the time it got

641
00:27:15,690 --> 00:27:13,660
to college and I decided to keep on with

642
00:27:18,330 --> 00:27:15,700
my interests in aviation learn how to

643
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:18,340
fly when I was in that college and grad

644
00:27:22,470 --> 00:27:20,410
school and it took me several years

645
00:27:25,650 --> 00:27:22,480
because I kept running out of money yeah

646
00:27:27,570 --> 00:27:25,660
and when I went into the Air Force it

647
00:27:31,290 --> 00:27:27,580
was explicitly to work in one of the

648
00:27:33,180 --> 00:27:31,300
aviation research offices ended up going

649
00:27:36,450 --> 00:27:33,190
to Edwards was there for a couple of

650
00:27:38,700 --> 00:27:36,460
years and worked on the f-16 Lantern

651
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:38,710
program which was some of the early

652
00:27:44,190 --> 00:27:41,530
iterations of infrared targeting and

653
00:27:48,930 --> 00:27:44,200
navigation systems why and this was

654
00:27:51,990 --> 00:27:48,940
again 8485 timeframe and the stuff they

655
00:27:54,060 --> 00:27:52,000
had was working great under the

656
00:27:55,890 --> 00:27:54,070
conditions of the Mojave Desert yeah

657
00:27:58,320 --> 00:27:55,900
it's like if they had to do this in the

658
00:27:59,820 --> 00:27:58,330
folder gap over and in Europe for you

659
00:28:02,310 --> 00:27:59,830
know the Warsaw Pact coming over the

660
00:28:04,050 --> 00:28:02,320
hill this isn't gonna work at all of

661
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:04,060
course a few years later the first time

662
00:28:08,670 --> 00:28:06,010
this technology got is big-time

663
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:08,680
was in the first Gulf War and the whole

664
00:28:12,030 --> 00:28:10,570
world saw those pictures and it's like

665
00:28:14,970 --> 00:28:12,040
wow this is amazing stuff

666
00:28:16,470 --> 00:28:14,980
so I hate to say this but that was some

667
00:28:20,010 --> 00:28:16,480
of the greatest marketing ever for that

668
00:28:22,170 --> 00:28:20,020
kind of technology on military aircraft

669
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:22,180
race we're about ready to go back right

670
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:26,050
yeah we're 55-second barn Oh 55 seconds

671
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:30,010
okay oh my goodness Wow that's how so

672
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:34,570
yeah 25 Oh gonna count down all the way

673
00:28:41,490 --> 00:28:37,210
from there so all right I got the timer

674
00:28:46,050 --> 00:28:41,500
going on that so interesting and was

675
00:28:49,140 --> 00:28:46,060
that hard to get an education in in

676
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:49,150
aviation I know it wasn't hard at all

677
00:28:54,030 --> 00:28:52,090
again I went off to engineering school

678
00:28:56,070 --> 00:28:54,040
and I ended up going to prints and print

679
00:28:57,450 --> 00:28:56,080
in school and I went into electrical

680
00:29:00,000 --> 00:28:57,460
engineering because I know enough about

681
00:29:02,100 --> 00:29:00,010
where things are going man aviation

682
00:29:04,350 --> 00:29:02,110
already had a big retrenchment a few

683
00:29:06,510 --> 00:29:04,360
years before and I thought well gee if I

684
00:29:07,710 --> 00:29:06,520
were to go in aviation in a discipline

685
00:29:10,620 --> 00:29:07,720
where I could actually go into another

686
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:10,630
business if I had to what you know what

687
00:29:15,150 --> 00:29:12,250
engineering what I followed I ended up

688
00:29:16,710 --> 00:29:15,160
doing electrical system analysis signal

689
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:16,720
processing that kind of thing all right

690
00:29:25,790 --> 00:29:18,010
I think we're ready to go back right

691
00:29:30,500 --> 00:29:25,800
race all right all set

692
00:29:35,550 --> 00:29:30,510
all right here we go in five four three

693
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:35,560
two all right welcome back my guest this

694
00:29:42,660 --> 00:29:38,410
evening is dr. Todd Curtis and we're

695
00:29:46,500 --> 00:29:42,670
talking aviation and we are aviation in

696
00:29:48,570 --> 00:29:46,510
UFOs and really enjoying it and I spend

697
00:29:52,460 --> 00:29:48,580
you know before the we went into break

698
00:29:56,790 --> 00:29:52,470
that I wanted to talk more about the jl

699
00:30:00,990 --> 00:29:56,800
1628 case unfortunately what happened to

700
00:30:04,380 --> 00:30:01,000
the pilot of that situation and so for

701
00:30:06,900 --> 00:30:04,390
the person that's not aware of that

702
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:06,910
whole case in particular are you able to

703
00:30:12,990 --> 00:30:09,490
walk us through exactly what you know

704
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:13,000
about it well I'm going from my rapidly

705
00:30:17,460 --> 00:30:14,890
fading memory but this was the early

706
00:30:20,430 --> 00:30:17,470
1980s it was a cargo flight jael cargo

707
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:20,440
flight in the Alaskan airspace north of

708
00:30:26,730 --> 00:30:23,530
Anchorage and the crew noticed several

709
00:30:28,740 --> 00:30:26,740
anomalous objects or phenomena out there

710
00:30:30,990 --> 00:30:28,750
including what looked like a UFO that

711
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:31,000
was several times larger than the 747

712
00:30:33,789 --> 00:30:33,250
itself and they not only saw this with

713
00:30:35,619 --> 00:30:33,799
their eyes

714
00:30:38,470 --> 00:30:35,629
radioed into air traffic control and

715
00:30:40,989 --> 00:30:38,480
they also got in touch with the military

716
00:30:44,049 --> 00:30:40,999
I believe out of Elmendorf Air Force

717
00:30:46,239 --> 00:30:44,059
Base so you had several physical eyes on

718
00:30:48,909 --> 00:30:46,249
it as well as radar tracking at this and

719
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:48,919
the FAA had radar tapes of this and of

720
00:30:52,450 --> 00:30:50,330
course they had a lot of transcripts of

721
00:30:54,669 --> 00:30:52,460
what went on and subsequent to that

722
00:30:57,009 --> 00:30:54,679
event there was a meeting apparently

723
00:31:00,700 --> 00:30:57,019
involving several branches of government

724
00:31:02,409 --> 00:31:00,710
other than the FAA and a lot of this was

725
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:02,419
supposed to be confiscated and kept

726
00:31:06,789 --> 00:31:04,730
quiet but one of the FAA managers who

727
00:31:09,159 --> 00:31:06,799
was there there was some of the data

728
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:09,169
that was not required to be taken away I

729
00:31:14,139 --> 00:31:10,970
believe by the FBI I might be wrong on

730
00:31:15,549 --> 00:31:14,149
that and he eventually no kept that for

731
00:31:18,399 --> 00:31:15,559
himself and released that to the public

732
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:18,409
later on so the public only got wind of

733
00:31:23,109 --> 00:31:20,330
this with respect to detailed

734
00:31:25,659 --> 00:31:23,119
information about what was done on the

735
00:31:27,669 --> 00:31:25,669
FAA side because this FAA manager

736
00:31:30,659 --> 00:31:27,679
decided to keep the data and then

737
00:31:33,989 --> 00:31:30,669
release it when it was a convenient and

738
00:31:37,509 --> 00:31:33,999
of course the captain of this aircraft

739
00:31:39,310 --> 00:31:37,519
was put on death non-flying duties for

740
00:31:41,979 --> 00:31:39,320
several years before he can go back to

741
00:31:44,259 --> 00:31:41,989
flying again strictly because of his

742
00:31:46,779 --> 00:31:44,269
role in reporting this and being open

743
00:31:50,049 --> 00:31:46,789
and honest about it yeah that's right

744
00:31:52,450 --> 00:31:50,059
and and I know that actually NAR cap

745
00:31:54,609 --> 00:31:52,460
actually got him reposted in his

746
00:31:57,460 --> 00:31:54,619
position actually they fought for him

747
00:32:03,549 --> 00:31:57,470
and actually was able to get him back in

748
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:03,559
the and the left seat so that that case

749
00:32:10,149 --> 00:32:07,730
though I consider it you know one of the

750
00:32:12,369 --> 00:32:10,159
best like I said just because of all all

751
00:32:14,710 --> 00:32:12,379
the evidence at least so that actually

752
00:32:18,759 --> 00:32:14,720
really happening in the description of

753
00:32:21,099 --> 00:32:18,769
the vehicle the size and what how it was

754
00:32:24,060 --> 00:32:21,109
tracking them it was following him and

755
00:32:27,039 --> 00:32:24,070
and they actually they did a circle I

756
00:32:28,330 --> 00:32:27,049
believe they did a circle when they were

757
00:32:31,149 --> 00:32:28,340
told to and the thing was basically

758
00:32:33,940 --> 00:32:31,159
following around this big 360-degree

759
00:32:36,999 --> 00:32:33,950
circle they were they were doing shaped

760
00:32:40,119 --> 00:32:37,009
like a walnut and with smaller vehicles

761
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:40,129
coming out of it you know just a real

762
00:32:46,539 --> 00:32:43,850
fascinating case and I know that I heard

763
00:32:47,170 --> 00:32:46,549
that the pilot did not want to talk

764
00:32:49,660 --> 00:32:47,180
about it

765
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:49,670
afterwards and I think that's a shame

766
00:32:55,570 --> 00:32:53,210
that you know it when someone is

767
00:32:58,240 --> 00:32:55,580
threatened either job is threatened but

768
00:33:03,040 --> 00:32:58,250
he's probably retired now possibly

769
00:33:04,900 --> 00:33:03,050
retired now I don't know ago so I'm

770
00:33:07,810 --> 00:33:04,910
pretty sure he was a senior pilot he'd

771
00:33:09,580 --> 00:33:07,820
be retired by now yeah and I wonder if

772
00:33:12,910 --> 00:33:09,590
that's something he ever you know wants

773
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:12,920
to talk about if anyone's ever tried to

774
00:33:19,090 --> 00:33:16,010
reach him maybe difficult to do but

775
00:33:20,710 --> 00:33:19,100
still and also one of the things that

776
00:33:23,650 --> 00:33:20,720
has occurred to me about this case I

777
00:33:25,810 --> 00:33:23,660
wonder in Japan if this case is talked

778
00:33:28,300 --> 00:33:25,820
about much there or if it's even talked

779
00:33:31,470 --> 00:33:28,310
about at all that's a good question I

780
00:33:35,190 --> 00:33:31,480
have never even explored that yeah yeah

781
00:33:38,590 --> 00:33:35,200
so I have up some questions that came in

782
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:38,600
from a listener to the show named Carrie

783
00:33:47,410 --> 00:33:44,930
and let's see so I'll start out with

784
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:47,420
this one here has the has there ever

785
00:33:54,030 --> 00:33:49,970
been any analysis of the total number of

786
00:33:59,320 --> 00:33:54,040
UFO sightings reported to the FAA and

787
00:34:01,620 --> 00:33:59,330
NAR cap and if so with the dip would you

788
00:34:04,810 --> 00:34:01,630
know the differences between the two

789
00:34:07,300 --> 00:34:04,820
well I can speak to the FAA part of that

790
00:34:09,460 --> 00:34:07,310
I have been looking at fa publications

791
00:34:11,740 --> 00:34:09,470
of all types for various issues over the

792
00:34:14,530 --> 00:34:11,750
years from laser strikes the aircraft

793
00:34:16,290 --> 00:34:14,540
bird strikes the aircraft etc never come

794
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:16,300
across anything that's even remotely

795
00:34:22,780 --> 00:34:21,050
associated with UFO sightings or unusual

796
00:34:25,450 --> 00:34:22,790
unexplained phenomena that may have

797
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:25,460
affected the aircraft systems or the

798
00:34:30,820 --> 00:34:27,530
aircrew behavior never seen anything

799
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:30,830
like that as for an arc caps analysis

800
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:33,170
I've delved a little bit into what

801
00:34:36,220 --> 00:34:34,490
they've done but I'm not totally

802
00:34:38,410 --> 00:34:36,230
familiar with the full range of things

803
00:34:40,710 --> 00:34:38,420
they've published over the years now I

804
00:34:43,510 --> 00:34:40,720
will I want to address that because

805
00:34:46,390 --> 00:34:43,520
obviously there has been many issues

806
00:34:49,060 --> 00:34:46,400
that have happened and but you're saying

807
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:49,070
that does the FAA would you believe the

808
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:51,050
FAA just plain does not want to hear

809
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:54,650
about them or would they just tell the

810
00:34:59,350 --> 00:34:56,690
pilot is it possible to tell the pilot

811
00:35:01,000 --> 00:34:59,360
use some other source of reporting if

812
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:01,010
you feel like they have to report this

813
00:35:04,930 --> 00:35:02,930
well certainly when it comes reporting

814
00:35:08,620 --> 00:35:04,940
they would say that because there isn't

815
00:35:11,140 --> 00:35:08,630
to my knowledge any clear program in

816
00:35:12,940 --> 00:35:11,150
place to report those kinds of events I

817
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:12,950
mentioned that bird strikes and laser

818
00:35:15,609 --> 00:35:14,450
strikes the aircraft I mentioned those

819
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:15,619
two specifically because I've been

820
00:35:20,470 --> 00:35:17,930
involved in the bird strike world for a

821
00:35:21,970 --> 00:35:20,480
while and I analyzed laser strikes a

822
00:35:24,580 --> 00:35:21,980
good bit because there was a very good

823
00:35:27,490 --> 00:35:24,590
database of that on the FAA website and

824
00:35:28,540 --> 00:35:27,500
in my years working with the FAA or

825
00:35:29,830 --> 00:35:28,550
going to the Department of

826
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:29,840
Transportation and their research

827
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:31,970
facilities there's all kinds of reports

828
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:33,410
out there but I've never come across

829
00:35:37,020 --> 00:35:35,450
anything that deals with anything

830
00:35:40,660 --> 00:35:37,030
remotely like UFOs

831
00:35:43,210 --> 00:35:40,670
well alright let's talk about for

832
00:35:45,790 --> 00:35:43,220
instance we just talked about the j al

833
00:35:51,609 --> 00:35:45,800
1628 obviously that there was a report

834
00:35:57,880 --> 00:35:51,619
but it kind of fell short there and then

835
00:36:00,970 --> 00:35:57,890
there's the o'hare gate c-17 incident

836
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:00,980
that happened and i know that there was

837
00:36:06,750 --> 00:36:04,210
an attempt to report that to the faa

838
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:06,760
what happens in a situation like that

839
00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:09,290
well this was a situation for those who

840
00:36:13,420 --> 00:36:10,730
are unfamiliar with it we basically have

841
00:36:14,910 --> 00:36:13,430
some sort of view aircraft your own

842
00:36:17,020 --> 00:36:14,920
whatever it was it really doesn't matter

843
00:36:20,980 --> 00:36:17,030
violating the earth space under one of

844
00:36:22,930 --> 00:36:20,990
the most critical pieces of aviation

845
00:36:24,820 --> 00:36:22,940
infrastructure in the United States you

846
00:36:26,620 --> 00:36:24,830
have something flying over the terminals

847
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:26,630
at O'Hare that's interrupting air

848
00:36:30,970 --> 00:36:29,450
traffic that's a hazard to aviation so

849
00:36:33,700 --> 00:36:30,980
there is no two ways about it

850
00:36:36,130 --> 00:36:33,710
that was clearly something that was as a

851
00:36:38,620 --> 00:36:36,140
straight-up violation of FAA regulations

852
00:36:39,940 --> 00:36:38,630
and if there is a pilot associated with

853
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:39,950
that vehicle that pilot would have been

854
00:36:44,620 --> 00:36:41,810
sanctioned might have had their license

855
00:36:46,330 --> 00:36:44,630
yanked well be it besides that even if

856
00:36:47,590 --> 00:36:46,340
you're not talking about the FAA you're

857
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:47,600
talking about something that could be a

858
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:51,170
threat to the infrastructure of aviation

859
00:36:55,150 --> 00:36:52,690
that's something that is

860
00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:55,160
responsibilities of the FBI some other

861
00:37:00,820 --> 00:36:57,530
sort of federal law enforcement or for

862
00:37:03,609 --> 00:37:00,830
that matter Chicago law enforcement in

863
00:37:05,109 --> 00:37:03,619
spite of that I have seen nothing in the

864
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:05,119
way of any kind of report any kind of

865
00:37:09,550 --> 00:37:07,130
acknowledgement even that this was being

866
00:37:11,380 --> 00:37:09,560
looked at with any seriousness by the

867
00:37:13,930 --> 00:37:11,390
responsible parties who should have been

868
00:37:14,860 --> 00:37:13,940
doing this now I don't want to make a

869
00:37:16,870 --> 00:37:14,870
joke about this

870
00:37:19,270 --> 00:37:16,880
if Isis claimed the next day hey that

871
00:37:20,620 --> 00:37:19,280
was us flying that drone we disguised it

872
00:37:22,570 --> 00:37:20,630
so it looked like a UFO so we can fool

873
00:37:23,290 --> 00:37:22,580
you guys next time around there would

874
00:37:26,470 --> 00:37:23,300
have been a completely different

875
00:37:28,270 --> 00:37:26,480
response but there is no responsible

876
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:28,280
party that came forward there is no

877
00:37:32,470 --> 00:37:30,170
evidence of any responsible party being

878
00:37:34,690 --> 00:37:32,480
associated with it it was a true unknown

879
00:37:36,910 --> 00:37:34,700
as to the source and motivation of

880
00:37:38,590 --> 00:37:36,920
whatever or whomever was flying that

881
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:38,600
vehicle assuming it was a physic

882
00:37:43,990 --> 00:37:40,370
physical vehicle and that lets say a

883
00:37:45,730 --> 00:37:44,000
projection of some sort right also that

884
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:45,740
it went up and pierced the perfect hole

885
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:49,010
in the cloud I don't even know how

886
00:37:53,140 --> 00:37:51,410
something will would even do that you

887
00:37:55,870 --> 00:37:53,150
know maybe the high rate of speed or

888
00:37:58,840 --> 00:37:55,880
something that that's just an unusual

889
00:38:01,510 --> 00:37:58,850
situation but enough people saw that to

890
00:38:03,970 --> 00:38:01,520
report it as well now it's also a

891
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:03,980
technological situation here at the time

892
00:38:08,500 --> 00:38:06,530
I believe those 2006 this is before

893
00:38:09,910 --> 00:38:08,510
YouTube this is before everyone and

894
00:38:12,250 --> 00:38:09,920
their brother had a smartphone with them

895
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:12,260
if that were to happen today it's very

896
00:38:16,630 --> 00:38:15,050
likely there would be tens dozens of

897
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:16,640
people who would have not only been my

898
00:38:21,970 --> 00:38:18,530
witness to it but have had still

899
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:21,980
photographs and and video of this and no

900
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:23,330
matter what kind of suppression any

901
00:38:26,980 --> 00:38:25,370
level of government we try to do it

902
00:38:28,900 --> 00:38:26,990
we'll be out there in the wild within

903
00:38:31,450 --> 00:38:28,910
minutes there'll be no way to stop

904
00:38:33,310 --> 00:38:31,460
information or at least knowledge of

905
00:38:36,340 --> 00:38:33,320
this event no way to stop that from

906
00:38:41,050 --> 00:38:36,350
going out of the world you know I agree

907
00:38:44,470 --> 00:38:41,060
I agree but not wholeheartedly because I

908
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:44,480
can understand that a lot of times when

909
00:38:47,950 --> 00:38:46,010
people have a sighting like something

910
00:38:49,390 --> 00:38:47,960
like an unexplained the last thing in

911
00:38:51,910 --> 00:38:49,400
the world they think of is their phone

912
00:38:53,830 --> 00:38:51,920
or camera but not everyone like for

913
00:38:55,630 --> 00:38:53,840
instance if I if I saw something like

914
00:38:58,450 --> 00:38:55,640
that I'd be grabbing for my phone but

915
00:39:00,610 --> 00:38:58,460
it's only because I do what I do and I

916
00:39:02,530 --> 00:39:00,620
had a sighting myself but I got to tell

917
00:39:04,900 --> 00:39:02,540
you when I had my sighting my phone was

918
00:39:07,710 --> 00:39:04,910
not anywhere near me but still I never

919
00:39:10,420 --> 00:39:07,720
even had never even occurred to me

920
00:39:14,770 --> 00:39:10,430
because I was in awe and just thinking

921
00:39:16,330 --> 00:39:14,780
what the heck is that and I think you

922
00:39:18,370 --> 00:39:16,340
know there's a lot of talk about this

923
00:39:22,540 --> 00:39:18,380
subject and I'm glad you brought it up

924
00:39:24,670 --> 00:39:22,550
because you know the skeptics I see it a

925
00:39:27,609 --> 00:39:24,680
lot out there and postings and stuff why

926
00:39:31,269 --> 00:39:27,619
aren't there you know

927
00:39:35,289 --> 00:39:31,279
tons and tons of videos and pictures of

928
00:39:37,089 --> 00:39:35,299
UFOs and I know my iPhone if I try to

929
00:39:38,679 --> 00:39:37,099
take something a night it even though

930
00:39:41,589 --> 00:39:38,689
it's an iPhone 8 it does a terrible job

931
00:39:43,539 --> 00:39:41,599
but still you know that's the big

932
00:39:44,979 --> 00:39:43,549
question if there's so many iPhones out

933
00:39:48,549 --> 00:39:44,989
there how come we're not seeing more

934
00:39:50,140 --> 00:39:48,559
UFOs and you know a lot of it you know I

935
00:39:52,299 --> 00:39:50,150
tried to take a picture of a blimp a few

936
00:39:53,859 --> 00:39:52,309
years ago you know how slow they move

937
00:39:56,319 --> 00:39:53,869
and I couldn't even get my phone out in

938
00:39:57,759 --> 00:39:56,329
time before it was over Boston Common I

939
00:40:01,599 --> 00:39:57,769
couldn't even get my phone out in time

940
00:40:05,349 --> 00:40:01,609
to take a picture of it so you know just

941
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:05,359
maybe flashback to 1981 when I took a

942
00:40:09,309 --> 00:40:06,890
picture of a blimp with a pinhole camera

943
00:40:10,620 --> 00:40:09,319
of all things but that's another story

944
00:40:13,059 --> 00:40:10,630
for another day

945
00:40:15,429 --> 00:40:13,069
you know this is an ageism sort of

946
00:40:17,499 --> 00:40:15,439
common I'm about to make people of a

947
00:40:19,209 --> 00:40:17,509
certain age they may not have their

948
00:40:21,009 --> 00:40:19,219
phones at the ready people who are

949
00:40:22,539 --> 00:40:21,019
younger than that certain age have the

950
00:40:24,759 --> 00:40:22,549
films out all the time to the point that

951
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:24,769
annoys the heck out of me I've seen more

952
00:40:29,079 --> 00:40:26,930
than a couple of you know emergency

953
00:40:31,449 --> 00:40:29,089
evacuation from aircraft videos where

954
00:40:33,429 --> 00:40:31,459
the person a young person would have the

955
00:40:35,169 --> 00:40:33,439
phone in their hand looking Bethan at

956
00:40:38,620 --> 00:40:35,179
the running oh my gosh the planes on

957
00:40:40,179 --> 00:40:38,630
fire it's like dude wait until you

958
00:40:43,569 --> 00:40:40,189
safety away before you turn the camera

959
00:40:45,370 --> 00:40:43,579
so again certain ages of people are more

960
00:40:47,769 --> 00:40:45,380
apt to whip out their phone for any

961
00:40:48,759 --> 00:40:47,779
reason or no reason at all so in the

962
00:40:52,329 --> 00:40:48,769
future I think we'll have more videos

963
00:40:54,609 --> 00:40:52,339
yeah and you know going back to two

964
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:54,619
pilots okay I've been in the cockpit a

965
00:41:02,769 --> 00:40:57,410
number of times myself not not flying

966
00:41:04,059 --> 00:41:02,779
but I mean on a jet I had I had a short

967
00:41:09,099 --> 00:41:04,069
time where I was involved in the

968
00:41:13,390 --> 00:41:09,109
aviation field so I flew and you can see

969
00:41:17,140 --> 00:41:13,400
like so far out in front of you you know

970
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:17,150
on a good clear day it's amazing how

971
00:41:23,169 --> 00:41:19,729
much of a visual capability you have up

972
00:41:24,339 --> 00:41:23,179
in the cockpit and you're covering a lot

973
00:41:27,219 --> 00:41:24,349
of ground it seems like you're going

974
00:41:31,269 --> 00:41:27,229
slow because you're just you know 40,000

975
00:41:33,759 --> 00:41:31,279
feet or thereabouts but do you think

976
00:41:35,499 --> 00:41:33,769
there's a lot of sightings from pilots

977
00:41:37,299 --> 00:41:35,509
would you would you guess that there's a

978
00:41:38,919 --> 00:41:37,309
lot of sightings I would say that there

979
00:41:40,570 --> 00:41:38,929
are a lot of sightings of things that

980
00:41:43,240 --> 00:41:40,580
are unexplained unexplained

981
00:41:45,610 --> 00:41:43,250
it could be something that might be

982
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:45,620
natural meteors etc and it could be

983
00:41:49,630 --> 00:41:47,210
other things military aircraft being

984
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:49,640
tested and again talking about let me

985
00:41:52,690 --> 00:41:50,690
talk a little bit about what you just

986
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:52,700
said you're sort of minimizing your

987
00:41:57,970 --> 00:41:54,890
experience in aviation you were a

988
00:42:00,070 --> 00:41:57,980
certified aviation professional you know

989
00:42:02,620 --> 00:42:00,080
had to go through formal training had to

990
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:02,630
deal with you know passengers in the

991
00:42:07,900 --> 00:42:04,130
airline business as a flight attendant

992
00:42:10,270 --> 00:42:07,910
so you're an insider so that that said

993
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:10,280
as as far as how well you can see in the

994
00:42:13,870 --> 00:42:12,770
aircraft add another flashback again

995
00:42:16,150 --> 00:42:13,880
maybe it's an age thing I keep getting

996
00:42:18,850 --> 00:42:16,160
flashbacks I was flying a glider over

997
00:42:20,950 --> 00:42:18,860
Princeton they had a glider club there

998
00:42:22,810 --> 00:42:20,960
back in the 70s when I was a student it

999
00:42:24,970 --> 00:42:22,820
was a very clear day it was about 1,500

1000
00:42:27,070 --> 00:42:24,980
feet the instructor said Todd I've got

1001
00:42:29,260 --> 00:42:27,080
the controls look to the left and right

1002
00:42:31,330 --> 00:42:29,270
what do you see over my left shoulder

1003
00:42:34,540 --> 00:42:31,340
I could see New York I can see the

1004
00:42:36,700 --> 00:42:34,550
Statue the verrazano-narrows World Trade

1005
00:42:38,050 --> 00:42:36,710
Center Empire State Building look over

1006
00:42:40,150 --> 00:42:38,060
on the other side I could see downtown

1007
00:42:42,490 --> 00:42:40,160
Philadelphia and I'm in a little glider

1008
00:42:45,100 --> 00:42:42,500
1,500 feet above central New Jersey and

1009
00:42:47,980 --> 00:42:45,110
I could see on either side of the state

1010
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:47,990
so if you're at 30,000 feet clear night

1011
00:42:54,010 --> 00:42:51,170
no clouds for miles you can imagine how

1012
00:42:56,470 --> 00:42:54,020
far you can see right yeah I haven't

1013
00:42:58,090 --> 00:42:56,480
I've never talked about the fact that I

1014
00:43:00,790 --> 00:42:58,100
was yes indeed I was a flight attendant

1015
00:43:03,970 --> 00:43:00,800
for I took a sabbatical from the antique

1016
00:43:07,900 --> 00:43:03,980
auction business for about a year and a

1017
00:43:08,590 --> 00:43:07,910
half and I decided to try out to be a

1018
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:08,600
flight attendant

1019
00:43:16,150 --> 00:43:13,850
I was with Pan Am 3 and and it was a and

1020
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:16,160
I was trained for for many weeks and

1021
00:43:24,550 --> 00:43:19,850
really enjoyed I loved it actually I was

1022
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:24,560
actually in Guantanamo Bay when the the

1023
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:26,450
Taliban were being brought in the first

1024
00:43:30,190 --> 00:43:27,890
holiday and were being brought in and I

1025
00:43:33,700 --> 00:43:30,200
was there with a government contract and

1026
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:33,710
and our plane actually had a fuel spill

1027
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:35,930
and we were stuck there for hours it was

1028
00:43:40,900 --> 00:43:37,370
very interesting while they circled

1029
00:43:42,910 --> 00:43:40,910
around with the Taliban prisoners so

1030
00:43:48,220 --> 00:43:42,920
that's going back to and I was also

1031
00:43:50,170 --> 00:43:48,230
during you know 9/11 I was not I was at

1032
00:43:52,720 --> 00:43:50,180
home when that happened but the whole

1033
00:43:54,460 --> 00:43:52,730
airline industry completely changed and

1034
00:43:58,599 --> 00:43:54,470
I'm sure you saw that as

1035
00:44:00,640 --> 00:43:58,609
well almost definitely yeah precautions

1036
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:00,650
take the plane apart look for razor

1037
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:03,650
cutters all that stuff was really really

1038
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:06,170
interesting so there I'm out of the

1039
00:44:11,050 --> 00:44:07,490
closet I was a flight attendant for

1040
00:44:13,330 --> 00:44:11,060
about a year and I got to travel I I did

1041
00:44:15,339 --> 00:44:13,340
it for travel and boy did I travel I had

1042
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:15,349
a lot of fun a lot of a lot of Island

1043
00:44:20,830 --> 00:44:18,410
fun and a lot of fun you mentioned

1044
00:44:23,290 --> 00:44:20,840
earlier about will pilots or anyone

1045
00:44:24,910 --> 00:44:23,300
report something if they have it I think

1046
00:44:27,099 --> 00:44:24,920
there are many many many good

1047
00:44:29,290 --> 00:44:27,109
photographs and videos of unexplained

1048
00:44:33,220 --> 00:44:29,300
phenomena out there but for the average

1049
00:44:34,750 --> 00:44:33,230
person are they going to you know take

1050
00:44:36,700 --> 00:44:34,760
the steps necessary to put it out there

1051
00:44:37,660 --> 00:44:36,710
even to put something on YouTube which

1052
00:44:39,220 --> 00:44:37,670
is fairly simple

1053
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:39,230
it means you not only have to have the

1054
00:44:42,849 --> 00:44:40,970
photograph or the video you have to have

1055
00:44:45,310 --> 00:44:42,859
a youtube account you have to upload it

1056
00:44:46,780 --> 00:44:45,320
and frankly most people are lazy they

1057
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:46,790
might be content to just show it to the

1058
00:44:51,430 --> 00:44:49,970
friends look what I saw and taking it no

1059
00:44:53,550 --> 00:44:51,440
further than that and if it is on

1060
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:53,560
YouTube speaking of YouTube and videos

1061
00:44:58,210 --> 00:44:56,090
there's so much fake stuff out there

1062
00:45:00,640 --> 00:44:58,220
from everyone's Final Cut Pro or

1063
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:00,650
whatever kind of thing a fake UFO

1064
00:45:04,990 --> 00:45:02,570
pictures on the on the internet that

1065
00:45:07,630 --> 00:45:05,000
just having a video that shows what

1066
00:45:07,810 --> 00:45:07,640
seems to be UFO my first thought would

1067
00:45:10,030 --> 00:45:07,820
be

1068
00:45:13,060 --> 00:45:10,040
okay this Photoshop or is this real I

1069
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:13,070
don't think it's one video yeah it's not

1070
00:45:17,470 --> 00:45:15,010
gonna get any better but keep going yeah

1071
00:45:19,450 --> 00:45:17,480
well if it's one person doing it it's

1072
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:19,460
one thing but if you have multiple

1073
00:45:25,660 --> 00:45:21,290
people doing it from different angles

1074
00:45:28,240 --> 00:45:25,670
different kinds of cameras and film and

1075
00:45:29,890 --> 00:45:28,250
and motion picture and you have

1076
00:45:31,599 --> 00:45:29,900
eyewitness testimony if you have a whole

1077
00:45:34,270 --> 00:45:31,609
bunch of things together throw in there

1078
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:34,280
a radar a return from the FAA now we're

1079
00:45:39,070 --> 00:45:36,890
talking sure you know one or two of

1080
00:45:41,859 --> 00:45:39,080
those might be fake but they can't all

1081
00:45:43,690 --> 00:45:41,869
be fake so if you have some event that's

1082
00:45:45,220 --> 00:45:43,700
witnessed by a whole bunch of people and

1083
00:45:46,900 --> 00:45:45,230
recorded in various ways by a whole

1084
00:45:50,370 --> 00:45:46,910
bunch of people stands a better chance

1085
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:50,380
of rising above the usual noise level

1086
00:45:56,710 --> 00:45:53,930
yes there's actually been some things on

1087
00:45:59,589 --> 00:45:56,720
the dome I don't know if you ever saw

1088
00:46:01,030 --> 00:45:59,599
that UFO that recording that was

1089
00:46:02,890 --> 00:46:01,040
recorded by several people but they

1090
00:46:04,690 --> 00:46:02,900
planned it you know they was all it was

1091
00:46:07,070 --> 00:46:04,700
all planned and the time that was one of

1092
00:46:08,860 --> 00:46:07,080
Dome of the rock yeah

1093
00:46:11,870 --> 00:46:08,870
and that's a real good one too I mean

1094
00:46:14,390 --> 00:46:11,880
but so there are situations where there

1095
00:46:15,260 --> 00:46:14,400
are you know people in cahoots but

1096
00:46:18,380 --> 00:46:15,270
you're right

1097
00:46:20,390 --> 00:46:18,390
anything on YouTube it's kind of you

1098
00:46:22,100 --> 00:46:20,400
know goes opposite the justice system it

1099
00:46:24,890 --> 00:46:22,110
has to be guilty till proven innocent

1100
00:46:26,330 --> 00:46:24,900
basically when you're looking on YouTube

1101
00:46:27,980 --> 00:46:26,340
because there's a there's a lot of

1102
00:46:31,370 --> 00:46:27,990
debris out there there's a lot of like

1103
00:46:33,230 --> 00:46:31,380
you said CGI and hoaxing it in the in

1104
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:33,240
the world of aviation safety there's all

1105
00:46:35,900 --> 00:46:34,890
sorts of events that happen that are

1106
00:46:37,850 --> 00:46:35,910
extremely rare

1107
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:37,860
but the thing is they might be extremely

1108
00:46:41,930 --> 00:46:39,930
rare but not they're not one-of-a-kind

1109
00:46:43,700 --> 00:46:41,940
if something happens every 5 or 10

1110
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:43,710
million flights after a while they'd be

1111
00:46:47,750 --> 00:46:45,090
enough evidence hey we have four or five

1112
00:46:49,700 --> 00:46:47,760
cases here now we're seeing a pattern if

1113
00:46:52,370 --> 00:46:49,710
you see if a one-of-a-kind thing let's

1114
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:52,380
say the Jael event and you never see

1115
00:46:56,750 --> 00:46:54,810
that again how can you develop a pattern

1116
00:46:59,630 --> 00:46:56,760
out of that so one of the difficulties

1117
00:47:02,150 --> 00:46:59,640
for extremely rare events that are also

1118
00:47:05,240 --> 00:47:02,160
unreported or underreported is that you

1119
00:47:06,950 --> 00:47:05,250
may not have a population of events or

1120
00:47:08,810 --> 00:47:06,960
case studies to make any sort of

1121
00:47:11,720 --> 00:47:08,820
reasonable judgment off of them and this

1122
00:47:14,740 --> 00:47:11,730
goes forget about UFOs even when it

1123
00:47:17,330 --> 00:47:14,750
comes to a risk to the aviation safety

1124
00:47:19,310 --> 00:47:17,340
you know this is something I did more

1125
00:47:20,870 --> 00:47:19,320
than a couple of times making the case

1126
00:47:22,940 --> 00:47:20,880
that something is a problem that should

1127
00:47:25,250 --> 00:47:22,950
be addressed not only do you have to

1128
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:25,260
recognize that happens and have to get

1129
00:47:28,580 --> 00:47:26,610
some sort of population of events

1130
00:47:30,950 --> 00:47:28,590
happening then you have to deal with the

1131
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:30,960
bureaucracy of the situation if you're

1132
00:47:35,210 --> 00:47:33,330
gonna change how airplanes are produced

1133
00:47:37,700 --> 00:47:35,220
let's say you probably have to change

1134
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:37,710
the regulations at some point to change

1135
00:47:41,210 --> 00:47:39,810
the regulations you just can't have one

1136
00:47:43,190 --> 00:47:41,220
person screaming and hollering from the

1137
00:47:45,980 --> 00:47:43,200
top of the hill you have to have

1138
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:45,990
consensus within the industry that this

1139
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:48,930
is an issue it should be addressed there

1140
00:47:53,180 --> 00:47:50,850
should be a systematic way of doing so

1141
00:47:55,340 --> 00:47:53,190
and once we figure this out we should

1142
00:47:58,640 --> 00:47:55,350
all agree that we will enforce this to

1143
00:48:00,110 --> 00:47:58,650
the letter around the world so it's hard

1144
00:48:02,660 --> 00:48:00,120
enough when it comes to something that

1145
00:48:04,790 --> 00:48:02,670
is recognizable as being a hazard to

1146
00:48:06,020 --> 00:48:04,800
people on board an aircraft it's even

1147
00:48:09,140 --> 00:48:06,030
harder if it's something that is not

1148
00:48:13,010 --> 00:48:09,150
recognized as a hazard may not have any

1149
00:48:15,530 --> 00:48:13,020
direct impact on the physical operation

1150
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:15,540
of the aircraft may have an effect on

1151
00:48:20,270 --> 00:48:18,090
how people respond again that's not more

1152
00:48:20,660 --> 00:48:20,280
of a training issue but even if it were

1153
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:20,670
that

1154
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:23,610
let's say sing something unusual cause

1155
00:48:29,780 --> 00:48:27,690
aircrews to behave abnormally there are

1156
00:48:31,190 --> 00:48:29,790
using procedures off-the-cuff they're

1157
00:48:34,460 --> 00:48:31,200
making maneuvers with the aircraft they

1158
00:48:36,140 --> 00:48:34,470
shouldn't well in many cases since this

1159
00:48:38,150 --> 00:48:36,150
is something it may not hit the airplane

1160
00:48:39,650 --> 00:48:38,160
or damage the airplane the response

1161
00:48:41,390 --> 00:48:39,660
might be a look we already have

1162
00:48:44,210 --> 00:48:41,400
procedures in place for what if you see

1163
00:48:46,220 --> 00:48:44,220
something that's not a tree altitude in

1164
00:48:47,090 --> 00:48:46,230
the vicinity should you take any kind of

1165
00:48:49,100 --> 00:48:47,100
evasive action

1166
00:48:50,870 --> 00:48:49,110
yes or no well if you shouldn't have

1167
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:50,880
taken an evasion evasive action if this

1168
00:48:54,170 --> 00:48:52,770
were an airplane and you took the vase

1169
00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:54,180
of action because you didn't think it

1170
00:48:59,210 --> 00:48:57,210
was an airplane were you doing the right

1171
00:49:00,740 --> 00:48:59,220
thing by taking matters into your own

1172
00:49:03,980 --> 00:49:00,750
hands or should you have stayed with

1173
00:49:07,010 --> 00:49:03,990
procedure so yeah it's a it's not a

1174
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:07,020
simple issue and how that issue gets

1175
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:10,370
resolved depends on the situation

1176
00:49:15,890 --> 00:49:13,050
yeah I understand all that and also I

1177
00:49:17,720 --> 00:49:15,900
know that you know crashes and things

1178
00:49:20,420 --> 00:49:17,730
that have happened you know they kind of

1179
00:49:22,220 --> 00:49:20,430
have to be dissected and how you know

1180
00:49:25,220 --> 00:49:22,230
and a lot of you know a lot of times

1181
00:49:26,630 --> 00:49:25,230
it's a multiple of a human error you

1182
00:49:28,370 --> 00:49:26,640
know one thing after another or not

1183
00:49:30,620 --> 00:49:28,380
following procedure or doing something

1184
00:49:32,420 --> 00:49:30,630
paying attention to the wrong thing or

1185
00:49:36,170 --> 00:49:32,430
whatever it is I've watched some of your

1186
00:49:37,990 --> 00:49:36,180
videos and how you've you've looked into

1187
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:38,000
that which i think is fascinating -

1188
00:49:44,380 --> 00:49:40,050
we're going to be going to break here

1189
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:44,390
shortly but as far as some people

1190
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:47,850
redirecting an airline around something

1191
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:50,370
that they are seeing you know an

1192
00:49:53,660 --> 00:49:52,290
unidentified object are there any cases

1193
00:49:58,190 --> 00:49:53,670
that you can think of where that

1194
00:50:00,380 --> 00:49:58,200
situation happened when it comes to

1195
00:50:02,090 --> 00:50:00,390
civil aviation and airliners I can't

1196
00:50:05,720 --> 00:50:02,100
think of anything where there was some

1197
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:05,730
sort of action taken that merited being

1198
00:50:12,050 --> 00:50:09,210
reported for example if you depart from

1199
00:50:13,850 --> 00:50:12,060
your assigned altitude against ATC at

1200
00:50:16,010 --> 00:50:13,860
recommendations that's something I'll be

1201
00:50:19,220 --> 00:50:16,020
reportable and it may even lead to some

1202
00:50:20,630 --> 00:50:19,230
sort of reprimand and Medad ever

1203
00:50:22,700 --> 00:50:20,640
happened with respect to an unknown

1204
00:50:24,980 --> 00:50:22,710
object I can easily see a situation

1205
00:50:26,990 --> 00:50:24,990
where someone violated their altitude

1206
00:50:29,570 --> 00:50:27,000
for whatever reason and they would

1207
00:50:30,530 --> 00:50:29,580
rather take the punishment and say I did

1208
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:30,540
this because I wasn't paying attention

1209
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:33,090
they'd rather do that than say I did

1210
00:50:37,100 --> 00:50:34,530
this because I saw giant wall

1211
00:50:41,930 --> 00:50:37,110
straight thing five times the size of a

1212
00:50:44,390 --> 00:50:41,940
747 coming right at me yeah yeah you

1213
00:50:47,420 --> 00:50:44,400
know I think we can talk a little bit

1214
00:50:52,310 --> 00:50:47,430
about the recent Irish incident we

1215
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:52,320
talked briefly about it but there has as

1216
00:50:57,070 --> 00:50:54,570
far as you know do you think that's

1217
00:51:00,200 --> 00:50:57,080
going to be look looked into seriously

1218
00:51:02,420 --> 00:51:00,210
it's hard to know there was a report

1219
00:51:04,310 --> 00:51:02,430
that the Irish Aviation Authority their

1220
00:51:06,590 --> 00:51:04,320
version of the FAA was going to make

1221
00:51:08,870 --> 00:51:06,600
some sort of report or look into it what

1222
00:51:11,300 --> 00:51:08,880
that will entail that remains to be seen

1223
00:51:13,610 --> 00:51:11,310
and again this was an event where there

1224
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:13,620
were several aircraft that reported

1225
00:51:18,140 --> 00:51:15,450
seeing something but to my knowledge

1226
00:51:19,510 --> 00:51:18,150
none of those aircraft did anything out

1227
00:51:22,070 --> 00:51:19,520
of the ordinary they didn't have to

1228
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:22,080
deviate from their flight plan they

1229
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:23,490
didn't have to do any sort of a facial

1230
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:26,010
evasive maneuver there was no effect on

1231
00:51:29,900 --> 00:51:28,050
the aircraft systems it was just

1232
00:51:32,270 --> 00:51:29,910
something highly unusual that was seen

1233
00:51:35,390 --> 00:51:32,280
by multiple pilots reported air traffic

1234
00:51:37,220 --> 00:51:35,400
control and one part of the thing that

1235
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:37,230
would be looked into and man should be

1236
00:51:42,950 --> 00:51:39,570
seriously looked into was this some sort

1237
00:51:46,010 --> 00:51:42,960
of military activity or flight test

1238
00:51:47,450 --> 00:51:46,020
activity let's say from a manufacturer

1239
00:51:50,450 --> 00:51:47,460
who's testing out a new design that

1240
00:51:51,950 --> 00:51:50,460
happens all the time but just because

1241
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:51,960
it's a new design just because it's

1242
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:54,330
proprietary or secret thing doesn't mean

1243
00:51:58,340 --> 00:51:56,370
you don't follow the rules right you

1244
00:52:01,250 --> 00:51:58,350
can't just go willy-nilly into the air

1245
00:52:02,750 --> 00:52:01,260
lanes and run your aircraft in front of

1246
00:52:05,750 --> 00:52:02,760
airliners without telling the FAA what

1247
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:05,760
you're going to do and you know there's

1248
00:52:09,860 --> 00:52:07,530
I'm sure the procedures in place for

1249
00:52:13,130 --> 00:52:09,870
secret aircraft to do their thing

1250
00:52:15,590 --> 00:52:13,140
without revealing to the FAA what

1251
00:52:17,090 --> 00:52:15,600
exactly that aircraft is now if those

1252
00:52:19,070 --> 00:52:17,100
procedures aren't being followed well

1253
00:52:21,830 --> 00:52:19,080
then someone should be a should be

1254
00:52:25,850 --> 00:52:21,840
dinged for it now you just mentioned air

1255
00:52:28,010 --> 00:52:25,860
lanes aren't they like do they just

1256
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:28,020
completely cover like to say the United

1257
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:30,690
States for instance or are they in

1258
00:52:36,230 --> 00:52:33,330
specific areas I know there's places

1259
00:52:38,270 --> 00:52:36,240
that have to be avoided more or less but

1260
00:52:40,610 --> 00:52:38,280
do they just spread I know they're

1261
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:40,620
different altitudes and all that that

1262
00:52:48,170 --> 00:52:44,850
these lanes are in but how do they

1263
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:48,180
actually what's there

1264
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:50,010
the web-like is that all over the

1265
00:52:55,370 --> 00:52:52,770
country it's all over the world really

1266
00:52:58,460 --> 00:52:55,380
because in the days before satellite

1267
00:53:00,620 --> 00:52:58,470
let's say the days before GPS navigation

1268
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:00,630
over land masses was was based on

1269
00:53:04,490 --> 00:53:02,970
various kinds of radio beacons spread

1270
00:53:08,349 --> 00:53:04,500
around the country around the world and

1271
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:08,359
you would have these IFR high-altitude

1272
00:53:12,410 --> 00:53:10,770
charts that would have not the land

1273
00:53:14,839 --> 00:53:12,420
masses and rivers and such which we see

1274
00:53:17,630 --> 00:53:14,849
on a VFR chart but would have okay this

1275
00:53:21,049 --> 00:53:17,640
is you know corridor XYZ or whatever

1276
00:53:23,210 --> 00:53:21,059
here's the radio beacon the type the

1277
00:53:26,240 --> 00:53:23,220
frequency etc etc you would navigate

1278
00:53:27,859 --> 00:53:26,250
from Waypoint to Waypoint as we've go

1279
00:53:29,990 --> 00:53:27,869
forward into the future because we have

1280
00:53:32,599 --> 00:53:30,000
a much more sophisticated navigational

1281
00:53:34,039 --> 00:53:32,609
system in place you can go way point to

1282
00:53:36,529 --> 00:53:34,049
make Waypoint from physical weight

1283
00:53:38,630 --> 00:53:36,539
points based on radio beacons of various

1284
00:53:41,150 --> 00:53:38,640
types or it could be a virtual Waypoint

1285
00:53:45,019 --> 00:53:41,160
so depending on where you're flying to

1286
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:45,029
or your frame flying you know from what

1287
00:53:49,279 --> 00:53:46,650
kind of traffic's in the area and what

1288
00:53:51,559 --> 00:53:49,289
air traffic control can do with you you

1289
00:53:52,940 --> 00:53:51,569
can do something that is a great circle

1290
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:52,950
route the shortest path between two

1291
00:53:58,690 --> 00:53:55,770
differences between two points or you

1292
00:54:01,000 --> 00:53:58,700
can do some other paths so you mentioned

1293
00:54:03,380 --> 00:54:01,010
various kinds of restricted airspace

1294
00:54:07,190 --> 00:54:03,390
there's various kinds of restrictions

1295
00:54:08,660 --> 00:54:07,200
from VFR aircraft not flying without IFR

1296
00:54:11,029 --> 00:54:08,670
type equipment in certain areas

1297
00:54:13,309 --> 00:54:11,039
especially near busy airports you have

1298
00:54:15,289 --> 00:54:13,319
military training areas which may be

1299
00:54:17,930 --> 00:54:15,299
active only some parts of the day or

1300
00:54:19,940 --> 00:54:17,940
some parts of the year where the air

1301
00:54:21,230 --> 00:54:19,950
traffic control FAA for instance could

1302
00:54:22,940 --> 00:54:21,240
give you the authorization to fly

1303
00:54:24,349 --> 00:54:22,950
through that then you have other

1304
00:54:26,990 --> 00:54:24,359
restricted areas that you can't do

1305
00:54:28,789 --> 00:54:27,000
anything with regardless for example try

1306
00:54:31,549 --> 00:54:28,799
flying over the White House yeah I

1307
00:54:34,519 --> 00:54:31,559
wouldn't if I were you okay it's time to

1308
00:54:36,710 --> 00:54:34,529
go to a break so my guest tonight is dr.

1309
00:54:40,460 --> 00:54:36,720
Todd Curtis and we're talking about

1310
00:54:42,740 --> 00:54:40,470
aviation and UFOs and this is Martin

1311
00:54:50,020 --> 00:54:42,750
Willis with kgr a radio we'll be right

1312
00:54:54,350 --> 00:54:52,100
all right Martin we're in the clear

1313
00:54:56,210 --> 00:54:54,360
we've got or just over four minutes in

1314
00:54:58,820 --> 00:54:56,220
this cry got it okay thank you

1315
00:55:02,480 --> 00:54:58,830
all right so I'm going to take a look to

1316
00:55:04,550 --> 00:55:02,490
see here is a question here has your

1317
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:04,560
guest now this is in the chat room in

1318
00:55:09,830 --> 00:55:06,810
beach bum Bob wants to know has your

1319
00:55:14,240 --> 00:55:09,840
guest ever looked into public FAA radar

1320
00:55:17,090 --> 00:55:14,250
records unknown flying objects in or

1321
00:55:19,970 --> 00:55:17,100
around Southern Catalina Island in

1322
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:19,980
Southern California now how would a

1323
00:55:23,510 --> 00:55:21,690
tic-tac have you heard about the tic-tac

1324
00:55:25,460 --> 00:55:23,520
I've heard about the dicta yeah

1325
00:55:27,260 --> 00:55:25,470
which came out last year in the New York

1326
00:55:29,170 --> 00:55:27,270
Times article and apparently I've been

1327
00:55:32,690 --> 00:55:29,180
floating around there beforehand with

1328
00:55:34,100 --> 00:55:32,700
article like I think it was in the drive

1329
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:34,110
that had an article about that some

1330
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:37,290
money years before yeah and and that's

1331
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:39,210
it well that happens on a regular basis

1332
00:55:43,610 --> 00:55:41,370
you have your major media which on

1333
00:55:46,010 --> 00:55:43,620
occasion has something then you have non

1334
00:55:47,990 --> 00:55:46,020
major media independent media you know

1335
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:48,000
websites like my own it might have

1336
00:55:51,410 --> 00:55:49,530
something interesting tantalizing and

1337
00:55:53,900 --> 00:55:51,420
whatnot but it just doesn't catch the

1338
00:55:55,970 --> 00:55:53,910
attention of major media now speaking

1339
00:55:58,180 --> 00:55:55,980
personally about my website air safecom

1340
00:56:00,830 --> 00:55:58,190
I'm constantly trying to get broader

1341
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:00,840
attention drawn to some issues and

1342
00:56:06,830 --> 00:56:03,330
sometimes I'm able to do that some most

1343
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:06,840
times I'm not right right okay just

1344
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:08,010
looking to see if there's any other

1345
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:12,450
questions up here on in the chatroom

1346
00:56:18,410 --> 00:56:15,690
here for you let's see we're going to be

1347
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:18,420
taking calls after this break

1348
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:23,970
and let's see lots of stuff in that but

1349
00:56:27,650 --> 00:56:25,170
I'm not seeing oh here's a question

1350
00:56:29,870 --> 00:56:27,660
right here so safety what do you think

1351
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:29,880
about the recent our Ireland sighting

1352
00:56:35,990 --> 00:56:32,930
well we were just talking about that and

1353
00:56:38,330 --> 00:56:36,000
people are saying though that they are a

1354
00:56:40,370 --> 00:56:38,340
few astronomers are saying they think

1355
00:56:44,210 --> 00:56:40,380
it's an astronomical event like a meteor

1356
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:44,220
or something but according to what I've

1357
00:56:49,790 --> 00:56:45,930
read about it it doesn't seem to behave

1358
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:49,800
like that so well I'll hold up that

1359
00:56:53,810 --> 00:56:51,930
there might be some astronomical

1360
00:56:55,490 --> 00:56:53,820
phenomena that were simply not aware of

1361
00:56:58,100 --> 00:56:55,500
that doesn't behave like meteors

1362
00:57:00,740 --> 00:56:58,110
let me behave in the fashion we just saw

1363
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:00,750
and again it may be something physical

1364
00:57:03,350 --> 00:57:01,410
and maybe

1365
00:57:06,500 --> 00:57:03,360
something non-physical is this some sort

1366
00:57:09,230 --> 00:57:06,510
of electrical magnetic phenomena that's

1367
00:57:13,240 --> 00:57:09,240
going on you know ball lightning you

1368
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:13,250
know and then some who knows I'm not a

1369
00:57:17,900 --> 00:57:16,170
scientist of atmospheric things like

1370
00:57:20,210 --> 00:57:17,910
that but certainly there's some

1371
00:57:22,610 --> 00:57:20,220
energetic events from ball lightning to

1372
00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:22,620
jets and sprites other kinds of

1373
00:57:27,020 --> 00:57:24,450
electromagnetic phenomena which occur in

1374
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:27,030
nature which are either not very well

1375
00:57:31,700 --> 00:57:28,610
understood or not very well observed

1376
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:31,710
yeah I think you mentioned sprites and

1377
00:57:35,300 --> 00:57:33,170
you mentioned that earlier those are

1378
00:57:37,070 --> 00:57:35,310
really bizarre for the person that's

1379
00:57:40,460 --> 00:57:37,080
unaware of exactly what they are they're

1380
00:57:43,130 --> 00:57:40,470
actually lightning that goes up and it

1381
00:57:45,140 --> 00:57:43,140
has been observed actually by the

1382
00:57:46,940 --> 00:57:45,150
International Space Station to I believe

1383
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:46,950
have they seen sprites as well yes

1384
00:57:50,900 --> 00:57:48,810
indeed I believe there are specific

1385
00:57:53,090 --> 00:57:50,910
experiments flown in either 80s or the

1386
00:57:55,220 --> 00:57:53,100
90s on this on the space shuttle to

1387
00:57:56,510 --> 00:57:55,230
study that very thing and scientists on

1388
00:57:59,540 --> 00:57:56,520
the ground who've been able to study it

1389
00:58:01,460 --> 00:57:59,550
as well and where it goes that you know

1390
00:58:03,230 --> 00:58:01,470
you think of lightning striking the

1391
00:58:05,780 --> 00:58:03,240
ground it makes a you know the reason

1392
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:05,790
it's on its way to the closest object

1393
00:58:11,570 --> 00:58:09,210
you know to ground out but do they know

1394
00:58:13,220 --> 00:58:11,580
what why these where these things are

1395
00:58:15,170 --> 00:58:13,230
going why they're going up and what

1396
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:15,180
makes them start and stop

1397
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:17,730
I haven't read enough into that to be

1398
00:58:21,020 --> 00:58:19,050
able to answer that but I do know that

1399
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:21,030
those are open questions for example if

1400
00:58:24,590 --> 00:58:23,250
you see a jet or sprite going up what

1401
00:58:25,820 --> 00:58:24,600
kind of cloud the ground or

1402
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:25,830
cloud-to-cloud lightning might be

1403
00:58:29,810 --> 00:58:27,570
happening simultaneously with that and

1404
00:58:32,150 --> 00:58:29,820
would it be different in character from

1405
00:58:33,890 --> 00:58:32,160
your run-of-the-mill lightning okay did

1406
00:58:35,270 --> 00:58:33,900
they do they teach pilots when they're

1407
00:58:38,060 --> 00:58:35,280
training them as far as you know do they

1408
00:58:42,710 --> 00:58:38,070
teach them about things like ball

1409
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:42,720
lightning and you know atmosphere in my

1410
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:44,490
training is a private pilot in my time

1411
00:58:47,450 --> 00:58:45,690
as a flight test engineer in the

1412
00:58:51,860 --> 00:58:47,460
military that sort of thing didn't come

1413
00:58:54,170 --> 00:58:51,870
up at all the things that well I would

1414
00:58:57,410 --> 00:58:54,180
say aerospace physiology was the thing

1415
00:58:59,870 --> 00:58:57,420
that we got a lot of formal training in

1416
00:59:01,460 --> 00:58:59,880
or at least you know having an idea of

1417
00:59:03,710 --> 00:59:01,470
that sort of thing the effects of

1418
00:59:06,050 --> 00:59:03,720
hypoxia that sort of thing and the fact

1419
00:59:07,610 --> 00:59:06,060
that you could have a for example I

1420
00:59:09,410 --> 00:59:07,620
can't remember the name for it you could

1421
00:59:11,570 --> 00:59:09,420
have a stationary light out there but if

1422
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:11,580
you have a dark background and no other

1423
00:59:15,650 --> 00:59:14,850
you know way of judging where it is if

1424
00:59:17,299 --> 00:59:15,660
you're sitting still

1425
00:59:19,279 --> 00:59:17,309
might think the lights moving so there's

1426
00:59:21,859 --> 00:59:19,289
all sorts of optical illusions that can

1427
00:59:23,539 --> 00:59:21,869
happen in the sky especially at night I

1428
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:23,549
think we have to go back brace we ready

1429
00:59:36,250 --> 00:59:26,490
to go back yes sir all right countdown

1430
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:41,839
okay hang in go Marshall free or final

1431
00:59:44,599 --> 00:59:43,890
hour that's right all right here we go

1432
00:59:50,900 --> 00:59:44,609
my friend

1433
00:59:53,450 --> 00:59:50,910
in five four three two all right welcome

1434
00:59:56,770 --> 00:59:53,460
back everyone my name is Martin Willis

1435
01:00:00,500 --> 00:59:56,780
my guest tonight is dr. Todd Curtis and

1436
01:00:02,569 --> 01:00:00,510
we are talking aviation safety and UFOs

1437
01:00:04,789 --> 01:00:02,579
we haven't really gotten into a lot of

1438
01:00:07,370 --> 01:00:04,799
UFO cases and I think it's fascinating

1439
01:00:11,930 --> 01:00:07,380
to hear your thoughts on them but also I

1440
01:00:15,010 --> 01:00:11,940
do want to let everyone know that we are

1441
01:00:17,450 --> 01:00:15,020
open for calls so if you want to call in

1442
01:00:21,079 --> 01:00:17,460
please do someone was listening to one

1443
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:21,089
of my shows today on on YouTube and saw

1444
01:00:25,819 --> 01:00:22,890
the callin numbered started calling me

1445
01:00:29,690 --> 01:00:25,829
at 2:00 o'clock in the afternoon so just

1446
01:00:32,569 --> 01:00:29,700
keep in mind this show is this show

1447
01:00:35,059 --> 01:00:32,579
number that is is only live our only

1448
01:00:38,299 --> 01:00:35,069
usable during the show itself and that

1449
01:00:41,990 --> 01:00:38,309
number is six oh three nine six seven

1450
01:00:47,839 --> 01:00:42,000
four o3o if anyone wants to call in what

1451
01:00:52,339 --> 01:00:47,849
would you consider the most besides the

1452
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:52,349
Jael case most significant case involved

1453
01:00:58,370 --> 01:00:55,170
in you know a UFO was involved in when

1454
01:00:59,960 --> 01:00:58,380
it comes to airline safety oh I think

1455
01:01:02,269 --> 01:00:59,970
hands down would have to be the Phoenix

1456
01:01:04,789 --> 01:01:02,279
light of Lights event that's something

1457
01:01:08,210 --> 01:01:04,799
where you nominally had eyewitnesses you

1458
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:08,220
had you know clear evidence of people

1459
01:01:12,890 --> 01:01:09,450
who should know better covering up

1460
01:01:14,329 --> 01:01:12,900
during the event itself specifically the

1461
01:01:16,460 --> 01:01:14,339
governor of Arizona who I believe was

1462
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:16,470
five Symington at that time who it was a

1463
01:01:20,630 --> 01:01:18,690
former Air Force pilot at the time of

1464
01:01:22,190 --> 01:01:20,640
the event I remember him giving a press

1465
01:01:24,319 --> 01:01:22,200
conference where he was like you know

1466
01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:24,329
blowing off the idea and making a joke

1467
01:01:28,190 --> 01:01:26,250
out of it bringing some guy in an alien

1468
01:01:29,650 --> 01:01:28,200
mask out in front of the press is saying

1469
01:01:32,300 --> 01:01:29,660
hey guys

1470
01:01:33,980 --> 01:01:32,310
take it easy on this yeah well years

1471
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:33,990
later he was on camera and I can't

1472
01:01:37,030 --> 01:01:35,010
remember which movie it was where he

1473
01:01:38,690 --> 01:01:37,040
basically said yeah I saw this thing

1474
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:38,700
when it happened

1475
01:01:44,060 --> 01:01:41,010
so here it was a government official

1476
01:01:45,710 --> 01:01:44,070
governor of Arizona at the time who was

1477
01:01:48,530 --> 01:01:45,720
involved for whatever reason in

1478
01:01:52,250 --> 01:01:48,540
squelching what was going on now what

1479
01:01:54,470 --> 01:01:52,260
went on I don't know and anyone who says

1480
01:01:57,260 --> 01:01:54,480
they know please have them call us but

1481
01:01:59,330 --> 01:01:57,270
if you have something that is seen from

1482
01:02:01,580 --> 01:01:59,340
the ground and from the sky from several

1483
01:02:04,700 --> 01:02:01,590
different directions from many different

1484
01:02:07,550 --> 01:02:04,710
people and it's over a wide area of a

1485
01:02:11,060 --> 01:02:07,560
major metropolitan area the potential

1486
01:02:13,099 --> 01:02:11,070
for aviation safety is obvious clearly

1487
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:13,109
if you were a pilot on the ground or in

1488
01:02:16,460 --> 01:02:14,250
the sky and you saw something like this

1489
01:02:18,950 --> 01:02:16,470
you wouldn't need air traffic control to

1490
01:02:20,870 --> 01:02:18,960
tell you not to run into the thing but

1491
01:02:24,410 --> 01:02:20,880
certainly you could have other effects

1492
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:24,420
going on that would all for example

1493
01:02:28,849 --> 01:02:26,730
yeah I'm just speculating enough to have

1494
01:02:31,550 --> 01:02:28,859
my head what if you have something that

1495
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:31,560
is unknown over major metropolitan area

1496
01:02:36,530 --> 01:02:34,530
and you call out NORAD the f-15s in the

1497
01:02:38,359 --> 01:02:36,540
case of Seattle not too long ago and

1498
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:38,369
someone not stole an aircraft from ctek

1499
01:02:42,500 --> 01:02:40,770
and they show up in the area and they

1500
01:02:44,330 --> 01:02:42,510
see something it looks to be hostile and

1501
01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:44,340
they shoot at it well it's not the UFO

1502
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:46,530
quote-unquote but maybe some pilot who

1503
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:49,530
got in the way so the potential exists

1504
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:51,810
if you have a confusing situation like

1505
01:02:57,800 --> 01:02:55,170
this that decisions can be made actions

1506
01:03:01,430 --> 01:02:57,810
could be taken that could put aircraft

1507
01:03:03,530 --> 01:03:01,440
and people on them at risk that's right

1508
01:03:06,530 --> 01:03:03,540
and there was an Air Force pilot

1509
01:03:08,990 --> 01:03:06,540
supposedly I don't know the details in

1510
01:03:10,550 --> 01:03:09,000
this that actually flew up to take a

1511
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:10,560
look at the object I don't know if you

1512
01:03:15,830 --> 01:03:13,530
heard about that I don't hear about that

1513
01:03:16,310 --> 01:03:15,840
yeah purportedly was scared out of his

1514
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:16,320
mind

1515
01:03:22,460 --> 01:03:19,530
and didn't want to talk about it and it

1516
01:03:25,099 --> 01:03:22,470
was really really shaken up and you know

1517
01:03:28,099 --> 01:03:25,109
there's there's the possibility of that

1518
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:28,109
thing being miles wide you know and and

1519
01:03:33,380 --> 01:03:31,290
what type of craft you know a lot of

1520
01:03:34,700 --> 01:03:33,390
people have mentioned that they believe

1521
01:03:37,099 --> 01:03:34,710
it was probably some type of government

1522
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:37,109
experimental craft and I don't I can't

1523
01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:40,410
really buy that argument for a number of

1524
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:41,970
reasons we have a call coming in I'm

1525
01:03:45,650 --> 01:03:42,450
going to

1526
01:03:50,930 --> 01:03:45,660
take it and hang on just one second here

1527
01:03:53,900 --> 01:03:50,940
okay caller you are on with us at

1528
01:03:56,750 --> 01:03:53,910
podcast UFO and what's your first name

1529
01:03:58,940 --> 01:03:56,760
where you calling from well thank you

1530
01:04:01,310 --> 01:03:58,950
very much I am Malcolm from Potter

1531
01:04:05,690 --> 01:04:01,320
glitter Florida and I would like to ask

1532
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:05,700
you just a question sure okay

1533
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:09,930
had you ever heard of a UFO stopping an

1534
01:04:16,810 --> 01:04:13,530
aircraft engine in mid-flight the way

1535
01:04:19,190 --> 01:04:16,820
they are reported to stop a car engine

1536
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:19,200
no as a matter of fact that I haven't

1537
01:04:25,849 --> 01:04:22,530
heard and speaking for large jet engines

1538
01:04:27,589 --> 01:04:25,859
especially having an engine shut down in

1539
01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:27,599
flight for any reason is a very rare

1540
01:04:32,750 --> 01:04:31,170
event and so much so that if it happens

1541
01:04:35,359 --> 01:04:32,760
it would be of high interest if not to

1542
01:04:37,910 --> 01:04:35,369
the FAA then to the engine manufacturer

1543
01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:37,920
so I would follow up that question by

1544
01:04:42,260 --> 01:04:40,050
saying this if there is any group that

1545
01:04:44,900 --> 01:04:42,270
would have information about unusual

1546
01:04:46,910 --> 01:04:44,910
stoppages of aircraft engines in flight

1547
01:04:52,940 --> 01:04:46,920
it would be the aircraft engine

1548
01:04:55,309 --> 01:04:52,950
manufacturers mm-hmm okay thank you very

1549
01:04:58,190 --> 01:04:55,319
much that's it all right Malcolm thanks

1550
01:05:00,260 --> 01:04:58,200
for the call and further on that if it's

1551
01:05:01,970 --> 01:05:00,270
a proprietary information that doesn't

1552
01:05:04,220 --> 01:05:01,980
have to be report it to the FAA or the

1553
01:05:05,660 --> 01:05:04,230
equivalent organization overseas it

1554
01:05:08,839 --> 01:05:05,670
could very well be something they keep

1555
01:05:11,569 --> 01:05:08,849
under their hat for decades because

1556
01:05:13,309 --> 01:05:11,579
again a private company that's in our

1557
01:05:16,180 --> 01:05:13,319
heavily regulated industry they

1558
01:05:19,339 --> 01:05:16,190
obviously have to adhere to regulations

1559
01:05:21,109 --> 01:05:19,349
when the regulations exist if there are

1560
01:05:24,230 --> 01:05:21,119
no regulations to report a particular

1561
01:05:27,910 --> 01:05:24,240
event it may never be reported I'm sure

1562
01:05:31,910 --> 01:05:27,920
you've heard there has been a military

1563
01:05:35,150 --> 01:05:31,920
situation and back in the 70s where the

1564
01:05:36,890 --> 01:05:35,160
craft was disabled for a moment until I

1565
01:05:38,870 --> 01:05:36,900
think it had a lock on or something and

1566
01:05:41,390 --> 01:05:38,880
it was the whole craft was disabled and

1567
01:05:43,430 --> 01:05:41,400
then and then basically came back on

1568
01:05:44,870 --> 01:05:43,440
again you know all this you're talking

1569
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:44,880
about the Terron event and that's

1570
01:05:50,300 --> 01:05:47,010
revenue yeah yeah six I think it was

1571
01:05:52,130 --> 01:05:50,310
yeah it was in the 70s mm-hmm so you've

1572
01:05:54,980 --> 01:05:52,140
done you've done your research you seem

1573
01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:54,990
to know quite a bit about well when it

1574
01:05:57,740 --> 01:05:55,770
comes to bizarre

1575
01:06:00,170 --> 01:05:57,750
things that happen to aircraft I tend to

1576
01:06:02,450 --> 01:06:00,180
perk up no matter what the reason is for

1577
01:06:04,580 --> 01:06:02,460
this in fact one of the things that I

1578
01:06:07,010 --> 01:06:04,590
came across which I find very found very

1579
01:06:08,690 --> 01:06:07,020
interesting Martin Caidin who is the

1580
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:08,700
author behind six million dollar man I

1581
01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:11,850
had a book of short stories of extremely

1582
01:06:18,050 --> 01:06:14,370
bizarre things that happened to aviators

1583
01:06:20,390 --> 01:06:18,060
or to aircraft from you know ghost

1584
01:06:23,060 --> 01:06:20,400
airports to things in the sky it's like

1585
01:06:24,770 --> 01:06:23,070
this is a you know this is too weird to

1586
01:06:26,900 --> 01:06:24,780
be fishing now where did this guy get

1587
01:06:28,490 --> 01:06:26,910
this stuff from you know he created a

1588
01:06:30,490 --> 01:06:28,500
six million dollar man understand that

1589
01:06:33,050 --> 01:06:30,500
but this stuff was even well beyond that

1590
01:06:35,180 --> 01:06:33,060
and he said it was like you know true

1591
01:06:36,830 --> 01:06:35,190
tales of you reporting not fiction and

1592
01:06:39,650 --> 01:06:36,840
he made up I can't remember the name of

1593
01:06:41,060 --> 01:06:39,660
the book offhand oh yeah you know

1594
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:41,070
there's also there was an Australian

1595
01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:44,250
case of a young pilot I actually have a

1596
01:06:48,740 --> 01:06:46,770
blog on my website about it it but that

1597
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:48,750
was a private pilot do you pay attention

1598
01:06:55,790 --> 01:06:52,410
to any you know smaller plane you know

1599
01:06:58,340 --> 01:06:55,800
private planes in issues I pay attention

1600
01:06:59,660 --> 01:06:58,350
to them when they come to public

1601
01:07:03,410 --> 01:06:59,670
prominence and they may have an impact

1602
01:07:05,210 --> 01:07:03,420
on safety or security for example and

1603
01:07:08,210 --> 01:07:05,220
one of the ones that that I really paid

1604
01:07:09,830 --> 01:07:08,220
attention to not because of it had any

1605
01:07:11,900 --> 01:07:09,840
major thing to do with aviation safety

1606
01:07:14,870 --> 01:07:11,910
and security but it spoke more to the

1607
01:07:17,180 --> 01:07:14,880
privacy of a pilot this is Harrison Ford

1608
01:07:18,890 --> 01:07:17,190
when he had that crash and as a world

1609
01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:18,900
war ii trainer near the Santa Monica

1610
01:07:22,340 --> 01:07:20,850
Airport a few years ago on a golf quiet

1611
01:07:24,260 --> 01:07:22,350
believed right on the golf course yeah

1612
01:07:26,060 --> 01:07:24,270
which was a spectacular piece of flying

1613
01:07:27,530 --> 01:07:26,070
I mean if he were an average pilot he

1614
01:07:29,510 --> 01:07:27,540
would have been dead but the thing that

1615
01:07:31,850 --> 01:07:29,520
really struck me is the NTSB had a

1616
01:07:34,310 --> 01:07:31,860
public docket on that event that was

1617
01:07:36,610 --> 01:07:34,320
like a major airline crash very very

1618
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:36,620
detailed yeah to the point that an

1619
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:38,850
average private pilot who gets in an

1620
01:07:43,310 --> 01:07:40,850
accident they might have a one-line

1621
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:43,320
something in the NTSB saying Cessna one

1622
01:07:47,720 --> 01:07:45,690
two three four crashed and the pilot was

1623
01:07:50,060 --> 01:07:47,730
seriously injured Harrison Ford had

1624
01:07:52,550 --> 01:07:50,070
several dissertations worth of stuff so

1625
01:07:55,160 --> 01:07:52,560
that speaks to if the government is

1626
01:07:56,900 --> 01:07:55,170
responsible for paying attention to

1627
01:07:59,150 --> 01:07:56,910
things that really have an impact on

1628
01:08:00,590 --> 01:07:59,160
safety and security why the heck are

1629
01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:00,600
they paying attention to Harrison Ford

1630
01:08:05,060 --> 01:08:02,850
who you know to his credit it wasn't

1631
01:08:07,700 --> 01:08:05,070
killed this had nothing to do with

1632
01:08:09,210 --> 01:08:07,710
current production aircraft it had no

1633
01:08:11,220 --> 01:08:09,220
major effect on

1634
01:08:13,589 --> 01:08:11,230
I flew in Los Angeles bill just

1635
01:08:15,450 --> 01:08:13,599
something just felt Jessica felt

1636
01:08:19,320 --> 01:08:15,460
compelled to study to a very great

1637
01:08:20,940 --> 01:08:19,330
degree do that to a Chicago event at

1638
01:08:24,329 --> 01:08:20,950
O'Hare event please don't do it to

1639
01:08:25,769 --> 01:08:24,339
Harrison for Wow yeah that's that's

1640
01:08:27,870 --> 01:08:25,779
really interesting

1641
01:08:30,150 --> 01:08:27,880
let's see another question that came in

1642
01:08:32,459 --> 01:08:30,160
is how does the FAA deal with unknown

1643
01:08:35,249 --> 01:08:32,469
targets showing up on radar within US

1644
01:08:37,890 --> 01:08:35,259
airspace and do the unknown targets get

1645
01:08:41,249 --> 01:08:37,900
handed off to the military to deal with

1646
01:08:44,849 --> 01:08:41,259
or I believe you kind of mentioned that

1647
01:08:46,740 --> 01:08:44,859
a lot of things are not too well looked

1648
01:08:48,209 --> 01:08:46,750
into with the FAA so I don't know even

1649
01:08:50,309 --> 01:08:48,219
know if there's that question can be

1650
01:08:52,410 --> 01:08:50,319
answered well I can't speak to the

1651
01:08:55,110 --> 01:08:52,420
detailed procedures that happened inside

1652
01:08:56,700 --> 01:08:55,120
the the control centers there I've

1653
01:08:58,709 --> 01:08:56,710
talked to a few controllers over the

1654
01:09:01,229 --> 01:08:58,719
years and certainly things come up that

1655
01:09:04,559 --> 01:09:01,239
aren't identified for example they might

1656
01:09:06,209 --> 01:09:04,569
have a transponder code that was well

1657
01:09:07,499 --> 01:09:06,219
they might ask my change the transponder

1658
01:09:09,749 --> 01:09:07,509
code so they can identify the aircraft

1659
01:09:12,090 --> 01:09:09,759
well if the aircraft changes the code

1660
01:09:14,400 --> 01:09:12,100
and I see that on the radar it's like

1661
01:09:16,709 --> 01:09:14,410
okay we have communication involved with

1662
01:09:18,090 --> 01:09:16,719
this pilot and even if this pilots fly

1663
01:09:20,280 --> 01:09:18,100
in the wrong way at least they're

1664
01:09:22,349 --> 01:09:20,290
responding to us if they give a command

1665
01:09:24,360 --> 01:09:22,359
to change a transponder code and there's

1666
01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:24,370
no change of transponder code then I

1667
01:09:28,709 --> 01:09:26,410
said themselves okay what's the problem

1668
01:09:30,030 --> 01:09:28,719
here it is someone who's deliberately

1669
01:09:33,300 --> 01:09:30,040
doing something is just someone who is

1670
01:09:35,150 --> 01:09:33,310
just lost is this none of the above do

1671
01:09:38,490 --> 01:09:35,160
we call NORAD what do we do here so

1672
01:09:39,959 --> 01:09:38,500
that's a situational sort of thing it

1673
01:09:42,360 --> 01:09:39,969
depends on the aircraft it depends

1674
01:09:45,900 --> 01:09:42,370
somewhere where there was not only the

1675
01:09:49,440 --> 01:09:45,910
the people in the cockpit saw this UFO

1676
01:09:51,180 --> 01:09:49,450
but the passengers did so that kind of

1677
01:09:54,900 --> 01:09:51,190
leads me I want to talk about the

1678
01:09:56,760 --> 01:09:54,910
Channel Islands but also do you know of

1679
01:10:01,680 --> 01:09:56,770
other cases where there were passengers

1680
01:10:03,209 --> 01:10:01,690
involved in us and a sighting can't

1681
01:10:05,130 --> 01:10:03,219
think of one that involved passengers

1682
01:10:07,500 --> 01:10:05,140
when I came to mind very briefly was a

1683
01:10:10,200 --> 01:10:07,510
America West event I think it was 1995

1684
01:10:11,970 --> 01:10:10,210
over the Southwest where the crew

1685
01:10:13,950 --> 01:10:11,980
definitely saw something I can't recall

1686
01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:13,960
in that report if the passengers also

1687
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:16,930
saw something but as far as other than

1688
01:10:20,790 --> 01:10:18,610
the Channel Islands event which you just

1689
01:10:22,439 --> 01:10:20,800
mentioned where there's some apparently

1690
01:10:24,780 --> 01:10:22,449
miles long object

1691
01:10:26,850 --> 01:10:24,790
or something seen at some distance from

1692
01:10:30,350 --> 01:10:26,860
the aircraft I can't think of any

1693
01:10:33,689 --> 01:10:30,360
recently for both pilots and passengers

1694
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:33,699
had a you know eyeball to eyeball with

1695
01:10:37,919 --> 01:10:36,010
whatever was out there well let's talk

1696
01:10:39,660 --> 01:10:37,929
about the Channel Island for those

1697
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:39,670
people on YouTube I'm just bringing up a

1698
01:10:46,850 --> 01:10:43,890
graphic on that situation now that's a

1699
01:10:50,280 --> 01:10:46,860
seems to be a very very credible

1700
01:10:52,500 --> 01:10:50,290
situation can you can you explain to the

1701
01:10:53,760 --> 01:10:52,510
listener exactly what happened well I

1702
01:10:56,070 --> 01:10:53,770
better be able to do that because I

1703
01:10:58,890 --> 01:10:56,080
believe back in 2014 or 15 I was

1704
01:11:01,229 --> 01:10:58,900
actually at did a TV show on that with

1705
01:11:02,910 --> 01:11:01,239
one of the I think it was one of the

1706
01:11:04,350 --> 01:11:02,920
History Channel ones if you give me a

1707
01:11:06,630 --> 01:11:04,360
minute I can actually pull up my notes

1708
01:11:08,910 --> 01:11:06,640
from that because I made the extensive

1709
01:11:10,290 --> 01:11:08,920
notes for that show and this was a

1710
01:11:13,650 --> 01:11:10,300
Channel Islands it was a fairly small

1711
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:13,660
aircraft one of these smaller than a

1712
01:11:17,310 --> 01:11:15,850
commuter airliner so the passengers and

1713
01:11:19,080 --> 01:11:17,320
it could see the cockpit it was like one

1714
01:11:21,240 --> 01:11:19,090
of these you know four six eaters the

1715
01:11:23,280 --> 01:11:21,250
Channel Islands are a couple of small UK

1716
01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:23,290
islands just off the French coast in the

1717
01:11:31,410 --> 01:11:26,770
English Channel at sea and this is like

1718
01:11:36,479 --> 01:11:31,420
a triple engine something try land or

1719
01:11:42,060 --> 01:11:36,489
something yeah yeah 2004 it was a

1720
01:11:44,370 --> 01:11:42,070
Smithsonian Channel and this pilot man

1721
01:11:49,610 --> 01:11:44,380
is seeing something that looks like big

1722
01:11:52,110 --> 01:11:49,620
yellow he almost like a big yellow bus

1723
01:11:54,540 --> 01:11:52,120
it was it was larger than the bus we're

1724
01:11:57,300 --> 01:11:54,550
talking something that was you know up

1725
01:11:59,939 --> 01:11:57,310
to a mile wide significant exactly yeah

1726
01:12:01,770 --> 01:11:59,949
and of course right when I need to pull

1727
01:12:03,570 --> 01:12:01,780
up the computers give me all kinds of

1728
01:12:09,330 --> 01:12:03,580
hassles here that's sorry so just from

1729
01:12:11,870 --> 01:12:09,340
memory you know the I forget exactly how

1730
01:12:14,189 --> 01:12:11,880
many passengers but everyone saw it

1731
01:12:16,410 --> 01:12:14,199
absolutely and it was reported to the

1732
01:12:18,330 --> 01:12:16,420
records of authorities and the pilot was

1733
01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:18,340
even interviewed on television more than

1734
01:12:21,900 --> 01:12:20,050
once so this wasn't something that was

1735
01:12:24,540 --> 01:12:21,910
hidden it was also something when I saw

1736
01:12:26,580 --> 01:12:24,550
no real follow-up to it that is was

1737
01:12:28,290 --> 01:12:26,590
there an explanation from the civil

1738
01:12:30,030 --> 01:12:28,300
aviation authorities in Britain or the a

1739
01:12:32,930 --> 01:12:30,040
EIB which is their equivalent of the

1740
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:32,940
NTSB I've seen nothing about this

1741
01:12:37,530 --> 01:12:35,890
subsequent to that do you happen to know

1742
01:12:39,630 --> 01:12:37,540
in particular I haven't looked into that

1743
01:12:41,880 --> 01:12:39,640
case in a long time but do you know in

1744
01:12:44,190 --> 01:12:41,890
particular for those were there was two

1745
01:12:46,110 --> 01:12:44,200
of them I believe were they moving

1746
01:12:48,390 --> 01:12:46,120
objects

1747
01:12:49,050 --> 01:12:48,400
did they see them take off or anything

1748
01:12:51,240 --> 01:12:49,060
like that

1749
01:12:55,020 --> 01:12:51,250
I don't recall if they saw them in

1750
01:12:56,640 --> 01:12:55,030
motion or in flood yeah do you know

1751
01:13:00,720 --> 01:12:56,650
approximately how long that sighting

1752
01:13:02,850 --> 01:13:00,730
lasted it was on the order of minutes

1753
01:13:04,220 --> 01:13:02,860
not seconds and again I can't remember

1754
01:13:06,660 --> 01:13:04,230
that the details of it

1755
01:13:08,160 --> 01:13:06,670
later on the show if I can pull this up

1756
01:13:10,140 --> 01:13:08,170
I like it back to you on that because

1757
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:10,150
again I did make notes about that it's

1758
01:13:13,620 --> 01:13:12,010
over four years ago and I don't want to

1759
01:13:16,020 --> 01:13:13,630
go on my memory too much beyond that

1760
01:13:19,230 --> 01:13:16,030
except to say that here was a situation

1761
01:13:20,700 --> 01:13:19,240
which had it happened in the u.s. I have

1762
01:13:23,520 --> 01:13:20,710
a feeling that the pilots would have

1763
01:13:27,780 --> 01:13:23,530
been far more reluctant to report this

1764
01:13:30,990 --> 01:13:27,790
to the public for example this pilot I

1765
01:13:32,430 --> 01:13:31,000
saw nothing about his career being any

1766
01:13:34,800 --> 01:13:32,440
way impacted by the fact that he saw

1767
01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:34,810
this do you think that it helped him

1768
01:13:40,020 --> 01:13:37,570
that he had witnesses so that were you

1769
01:13:41,700 --> 01:13:40,030
know passengers oh absolutely

1770
01:13:48,140 --> 01:13:41,710
this is not something that they could

1771
01:14:01,530 --> 01:13:54,570
I should have unplugged my Alexa all

1772
01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:01,540
right I like so stop happens again I'm

1773
01:14:05,580 --> 01:14:02,890
gonna unplug the thing well I've always

1774
01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:05,590
heard we'd be taken over by artificial

1775
01:14:10,740 --> 01:14:08,730
intelligence so it's it's beginning yeah

1776
01:14:15,720 --> 01:14:10,750
it's artificial I don't know if it's

1777
01:14:20,010 --> 01:14:15,730
intelligence and what what some other

1778
01:14:22,650 --> 01:14:20,020
notable cases I believe I sent you a

1779
01:14:26,670 --> 01:14:22,660
link to one in Arizona I don't know if

1780
01:14:28,020 --> 01:14:26,680
you'd looked into that what organ the

1781
01:14:31,100 --> 01:14:28,030
organ one that happened just a few

1782
01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:31,110
months ago this was a high flying

1783
01:14:36,180 --> 01:14:34,330
aircraft or some sort of vehicle that

1784
01:14:37,590 --> 01:14:36,190
was going between Northern California

1785
01:14:39,300 --> 01:14:37,600
Southern Oregon going up toward

1786
01:14:40,830 --> 01:14:39,310
Washington State and this was something

1787
01:14:43,350 --> 01:14:40,840
where there are several high flying

1788
01:14:45,420 --> 01:14:43,360
airliners who saw this apparently from

1789
01:14:47,850 --> 01:14:45,430
their estimate only several thousand

1790
01:14:49,950 --> 01:14:47,860
feet above their flight altitude

1791
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:49,960
and in the sink and general direction as

1792
01:14:54,180 --> 01:14:51,970
north-south traffic on the west coast

1793
01:14:55,830 --> 01:14:54,190
and this is something where and again

1794
01:14:58,770 --> 01:14:55,840
the air traffic controllers didn't have

1795
01:15:01,230 --> 01:14:58,780
any had a transponder code on this thing

1796
01:15:03,180 --> 01:15:01,240
if this were a military aircraft if this

1797
01:15:06,270 --> 01:15:03,190
were a private company that had some

1798
01:15:07,620 --> 01:15:06,280
sort of test vehicle it would be let's

1799
01:15:10,770 --> 01:15:07,630
just say the height of irresponsibility

1800
01:15:12,450 --> 01:15:10,780
to fly it in or near a quarter that's

1801
01:15:14,280 --> 01:15:12,460
occupied by airliners without telling

1802
01:15:16,980 --> 01:15:14,290
air-traffic control without clearing

1803
01:15:18,750 --> 01:15:16,990
this ahead of time with the FAA so could

1804
01:15:20,480 --> 01:15:18,760
this have been some rogue operator who

1805
01:15:24,060 --> 01:15:20,490
was operating some vehicle up there

1806
01:15:27,180 --> 01:15:24,070
certainly could but let's just say that

1807
01:15:28,500 --> 01:15:27,190
the level of technology and effort it

1808
01:15:30,450 --> 01:15:28,510
takes to get an aircraft in the

1809
01:15:33,150 --> 01:15:30,460
stratosphere means that you're not gonna

1810
01:15:34,860 --> 01:15:33,160
have a single person fuel this up

1811
01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:34,870
maintain the aircraft and get it up to

1812
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:37,090
altitude if this were some sort of

1813
01:15:40,980 --> 01:15:39,010
conventional vehicle there had to be a

1814
01:15:42,480 --> 01:15:40,990
group of people or some organization

1815
01:15:45,690 --> 01:15:42,490
involved to get that airplane where it

1816
01:15:47,670 --> 01:15:45,700
was if it wasn't if this was some sort

1817
01:15:49,500 --> 01:15:47,680
of natural phenomena well it certainly

1818
01:15:51,180 --> 01:15:49,510
didn't act like any natural phenomena I

1819
01:15:54,390 --> 01:15:51,190
know from the sky didn't act like a

1820
01:15:56,460 --> 01:15:54,400
meteor didn't act like a ball lightning

1821
01:15:59,400 --> 01:15:56,470
didn't act like anything that made sense

1822
01:16:01,860 --> 01:15:59,410
given the verbal descriptions by these

1823
01:16:03,750 --> 01:16:01,870
airline pilots all right now I'm gonna

1824
01:16:06,060 --> 01:16:03,760
I'm gonna go out on a limb and ask you a

1825
01:16:10,560 --> 01:16:06,070
question here and that you may be

1826
01:16:15,270 --> 01:16:10,570
hesitant to answer do you think it is a

1827
01:16:19,010 --> 01:16:15,280
possibility that we are we might be

1828
01:16:22,800 --> 01:16:19,020
visited from another intelligence

1829
01:16:24,750 --> 01:16:22,810
certainly possible but again as it's

1830
01:16:26,730 --> 01:16:24,760
possible doesn't mean it's likely

1831
01:16:28,380 --> 01:16:26,740
doesn't mean it's 100% certain that's

1832
01:16:29,880 --> 01:16:28,390
happened in the past or that could that

1833
01:16:33,210 --> 01:16:29,890
happen in the future

1834
01:16:36,330 --> 01:16:33,220
certainly one could project the fact

1835
01:16:37,740 --> 01:16:36,340
that there billions of galaxies is not

1836
01:16:40,110 --> 01:16:37,750
even to mention planets that are out

1837
01:16:42,930 --> 01:16:40,120
there and that already in the past 10 to

1838
01:16:45,630 --> 01:16:42,940
15 years various scientists have seen

1839
01:16:48,240 --> 01:16:45,640
dozens if not hundreds of extrasolar

1840
01:16:50,400 --> 01:16:48,250
planets that is planetary bodies

1841
01:16:51,780 --> 01:16:50,410
orbiting around the Sun of other than

1842
01:16:53,850 --> 01:16:51,790
their own that are out there

1843
01:16:57,300 --> 01:16:53,860
some of them are even in what they hold

1844
01:16:59,970 --> 01:16:57,310
a habitable habitable zone that is given

1845
01:17:01,140 --> 01:16:59,980
the the solar radiation string coming

1846
01:17:04,440 --> 01:17:01,150
off of a star and the

1847
01:17:07,560 --> 01:17:04,450
when that planet is the kind of distance

1848
01:17:09,150 --> 01:17:07,570
that could possibly allow an atmosphere

1849
01:17:12,870 --> 01:17:09,160
like Earth's to exist

1850
01:17:14,760 --> 01:17:12,880
so certainly life could be existing

1851
01:17:16,770 --> 01:17:14,770
elsewhere as we know it now intelligence

1852
01:17:18,990 --> 01:17:16,780
that's a broader question what

1853
01:17:21,180 --> 01:17:19,000
constitutes intelligence we just had

1854
01:17:29,540 --> 01:17:21,190
Alexa a few minutes ago so to interrupt

1855
01:17:34,380 --> 01:17:32,070
obviously it is intelligence

1856
01:17:36,450 --> 01:17:34,390
quote-unquote if you can define it as

1857
01:17:38,610 --> 01:17:36,460
such especially if you're trying to sell

1858
01:17:40,140 --> 01:17:38,620
stock in this company that's not

1859
01:17:41,780 --> 01:17:40,150
necessarily an intelligence that would

1860
01:17:44,270 --> 01:17:41,790
respect or would fear

1861
01:17:48,180 --> 01:17:44,280
does the intelligence like that exist

1862
01:17:50,490 --> 01:17:48,190
possibly is there cybernetic kinds of

1863
01:17:53,580 --> 01:17:50,500
intelligences that exist right now on

1864
01:17:57,420 --> 01:17:53,590
earth in a corporate sort of environment

1865
01:17:58,890 --> 01:17:57,430
or with things like the system I can't

1866
01:18:02,310 --> 01:17:58,900
mention because it'll start responding

1867
01:18:03,800 --> 01:18:02,320
or similar systems from Google yeah what

1868
01:18:07,020 --> 01:18:03,810
is it in intelligence that could fly

1869
01:18:12,660 --> 01:18:07,030
some sort of aerospace vehicle have no

1870
01:18:15,060 --> 01:18:12,670
clue a number of I guess skeptics and I

1871
01:18:17,730 --> 01:18:15,070
don't say skeptics with the you know

1872
01:18:21,180 --> 01:18:17,740
like it's the bad word I think it's good

1873
01:18:23,910 --> 01:18:21,190
to have skepticism and to look at

1874
01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:23,920
something you know objectively instead

1875
01:18:30,330 --> 01:18:27,970
of just you know buying into you know

1876
01:18:33,690 --> 01:18:30,340
the fact that it's alien or whatever but

1877
01:18:36,210 --> 01:18:33,700
some skeptics will kind of go the other

1878
01:18:38,970 --> 01:18:36,220
way a little bit too strong and and just

1879
01:18:40,950 --> 01:18:38,980
say that I had won on this show Roger

1880
01:18:44,340 --> 01:18:40,960
Nygaard a few years ago as a filmmaker

1881
01:18:47,070 --> 01:18:44,350
and he was on and he said that he thinks

1882
01:18:50,540 --> 01:18:47,080
a hundred percent of the UFOs that are

1883
01:18:53,160 --> 01:18:50,550
seen are you know secret military craft

1884
01:18:54,980 --> 01:18:53,170
do you think that you know I mean I

1885
01:18:58,800 --> 01:18:54,990
think it's very possible that some are

1886
01:19:02,520 --> 01:18:58,810
but do you think that there's a

1887
01:19:06,770 --> 01:19:02,530
possibility of a lot of you know unknown

1888
01:19:09,930 --> 01:19:06,780
aircraft being linked to the military or

1889
01:19:11,640 --> 01:19:09,940
like you said private contractors it's

1890
01:19:13,530 --> 01:19:11,650
very easy to speak to the secret

1891
01:19:14,640 --> 01:19:13,540
military aircraft the answer is it's not

1892
01:19:16,380 --> 01:19:14,650
a hundred percent because I

1893
01:19:18,540 --> 01:19:16,390
you just mentioned sometimes you have a

1894
01:19:20,250 --> 01:19:18,550
private contractor who on speculation

1895
01:19:22,110 --> 01:19:20,260
builds something that they're trying to

1896
01:19:24,060 --> 01:19:22,120
sell the military it's not a military

1897
01:19:25,709 --> 01:19:24,070
aircraft it's not even a developmental

1898
01:19:28,020 --> 01:19:25,719
aircraft for the military if there's no

1899
01:19:29,550 --> 01:19:28,030
contract sign so now and there have been

1900
01:19:31,680 --> 01:19:29,560
these things in the past so now a

1901
01:19:33,660 --> 01:19:31,690
hundred percent of these unknowns are

1902
01:19:36,630 --> 01:19:33,670
not military aircraft or military

1903
01:19:40,050 --> 01:19:36,640
projects could they be projects made by

1904
01:19:41,669 --> 01:19:40,060
human beings I would say a good fraction

1905
01:19:44,939 --> 01:19:41,679
of the minor would I say a hundred

1906
01:19:46,890 --> 01:19:44,949
percent now because there are some

1907
01:19:49,200 --> 01:19:46,900
things that are out there that that

1908
01:19:50,970 --> 01:19:49,210
turns out to be not vehicles for example

1909
01:19:53,250 --> 01:19:50,980
getting about the Jets and sprites again

1910
01:19:54,870 --> 01:19:53,260
that wasn't a lightning type of event

1911
01:19:57,270 --> 01:19:54,880
but let's say you have something small

1912
01:19:59,340 --> 01:19:57,280
like ball lightning that's somehow for

1913
01:20:01,110 --> 01:19:59,350
whatever reason behaves in a manner

1914
01:20:03,810 --> 01:20:01,120
consistent with some sort of lighted

1915
01:20:05,040 --> 01:20:03,820
craft for some period of time you can

1916
01:20:07,169 --> 01:20:05,050
point to that and say hey this looks

1917
01:20:08,459 --> 01:20:07,179
just like a secret military aircraft

1918
01:20:11,490 --> 01:20:08,469
with some plasma around it

1919
01:20:14,610 --> 01:20:11,500
no it's ball lightning so I wouldn't say

1920
01:20:16,860 --> 01:20:14,620
a hundred percent on that do I have any

1921
01:20:17,820 --> 01:20:16,870
evidence to say that sixty percent forty

1922
01:20:21,720 --> 01:20:17,830
percent ten percent

1923
01:20:22,740 --> 01:20:21,730
I don't simply because what's what I

1924
01:20:25,169 --> 01:20:22,750
call the numerator and denominator

1925
01:20:28,140 --> 01:20:25,179
problem we don't have the numerator

1926
01:20:31,260 --> 01:20:28,150
numerator we don't have the total number

1927
01:20:33,060 --> 01:20:31,270
of events that are anomalous we don't

1928
01:20:35,000 --> 01:20:33,070
have the denominator the total number of

1929
01:20:37,290 --> 01:20:35,010
events including the anomalous ones

1930
01:20:39,090 --> 01:20:37,300
there could be many secretive military

1931
01:20:41,490 --> 01:20:39,100
aircraft flights have happened that we

1932
01:20:44,729 --> 01:20:41,500
don't know about so it won't be in the

1933
01:20:47,729 --> 01:20:44,739
denominator so now we have no real way

1934
01:20:50,370 --> 01:20:47,739
in my opinion of making a reasonable

1935
01:20:53,450 --> 01:20:50,380
estimate as to what fraction of these or

1936
01:20:55,770 --> 01:20:53,460
military aircraft or military programs

1937
01:20:57,990 --> 01:20:55,780
good answer thank you

1938
01:21:00,810 --> 01:20:58,000
so I want to just take a little sidestep

1939
01:21:03,270 --> 01:21:00,820
just for a few minutes here and I want

1940
01:21:08,160 --> 01:21:03,280
to talk about I want to talk about

1941
01:21:11,220 --> 01:21:08,170
airline safety and currently and in

1942
01:21:12,899 --> 01:21:11,230
general because I know that you know

1943
01:21:16,020 --> 01:21:12,909
over the years it's getting better and

1944
01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:16,030
better and but when you hear about a

1945
01:21:22,919 --> 01:21:19,570
crash everybody knows about it but

1946
01:21:24,689 --> 01:21:22,929
currently like on any given day how many

1947
01:21:26,490 --> 01:21:24,699
flights would you say there are around

1948
01:21:28,040 --> 01:21:26,500
the world would you be able to throw out

1949
01:21:31,970 --> 01:21:28,050
some

1950
01:21:36,740 --> 01:21:31,980
ballpark stats for us boy I would be

1951
01:21:42,970 --> 01:21:36,750
able through look not sure what happened

1952
01:21:48,740 --> 01:21:42,980
to your Skype alright it's not on my end

1953
01:21:53,960 --> 01:21:48,750
so hang on everyone looks like looks

1954
01:21:56,150 --> 01:21:53,970
like his Skype is frozen and so while

1955
01:22:00,760 --> 01:21:56,160
we're working on that if someone would

1956
01:22:03,980 --> 01:22:00,770
like to call in I will I will try to

1957
01:22:05,510 --> 01:22:03,990
let's see how I can do this here I'm

1958
01:22:09,250 --> 01:22:05,520
gonna try to hang up if anyone wants to

1959
01:22:11,120 --> 01:22:09,260
call in please do that phone number is

1960
01:22:16,850 --> 01:22:11,130
nine six seven

1961
01:22:21,920 --> 01:22:16,860
4:03 oh and we're gonna try to get him

1962
01:22:31,880 --> 01:22:21,930
back so alright go ahead and change that

1963
01:22:33,950 --> 01:22:31,890
if you would let's so I apologize to the

1964
01:22:35,600 --> 01:22:33,960
listener on YouTube I'm not sure what

1965
01:22:39,950 --> 01:22:35,610
happened to his Skype just all of a

1966
01:22:45,440 --> 01:22:39,960
sudden just froze and let's see go back

1967
01:22:48,830 --> 01:22:45,450
to him and I'll try to hopefully just

1968
01:22:53,960 --> 01:22:48,840
hang up on him I believe it did that and

1969
01:22:55,580 --> 01:22:53,970
I'll try to call him back and meanwhile

1970
01:22:57,740 --> 01:22:55,590
if anyone wants to call in that phone

1971
01:23:02,030 --> 01:22:57,750
numbers up on YouTube anyone's welcome

1972
01:23:03,590 --> 01:23:02,040
to give us a ring and either pose a

1973
01:23:12,080 --> 01:23:03,600
question for our guest coming back

1974
01:23:13,750 --> 01:23:12,090
hopefully or just talk if anyone was to

1975
01:23:16,670 --> 01:23:13,760
call in and talk about a sighting that

1976
01:23:19,730 --> 01:23:16,680
they had out I'm always interested in

1977
01:23:22,010 --> 01:23:19,740
hearing about a sighting so if anyone

1978
01:23:25,880 --> 01:23:22,020
like to ring us about that that number

1979
01:23:33,440 --> 01:23:25,890
six oh three nine six seven four OH

1980
01:23:34,910 --> 01:23:33,450
three oh and give us a call let me go

1981
01:23:38,600 --> 01:23:34,920
back to Skype here and see what's going

1982
01:23:44,070 --> 01:23:41,430
okay we'll try him again looks like a

1983
01:23:48,270 --> 01:23:44,080
it's possible that his internet went

1984
01:24:06,620 --> 01:24:00,330
try them back right now okay well it's

1985
01:24:18,860 --> 01:24:11,900
try again so we have out we have a half

1986
01:24:21,530 --> 01:24:18,870
hour left and see so I'm asking again

1987
01:24:24,290 --> 01:24:21,540
once again anyone out on YouTube want to

1988
01:24:25,910 --> 01:24:24,300
give us a call talk about what we're

1989
01:24:29,330 --> 01:24:25,920
talking about in general we have someone

1990
01:24:31,540 --> 01:24:29,340
calling right now and it still look like

1991
01:24:36,970 --> 01:24:31,550
we're having trouble with the guest

1992
01:24:39,680 --> 01:24:36,980
ringing through to the Skype so caller

1993
01:24:40,900 --> 01:24:39,690
thanks for calling in what's your first

1994
01:24:44,120 --> 01:24:40,910
name where you calling from

1995
01:24:46,850 --> 01:24:44,130
this is Linda from New York I thought

1996
01:24:48,980 --> 01:24:46,860
maybe I'd provide you with some

1997
01:24:53,690 --> 01:24:48,990
information while you're hanging there

1998
01:24:55,820 --> 01:24:53,700
is this the Linda 15 Linda yeah how are

1999
01:24:56,690 --> 01:24:55,830
you good can I say if do you mind if I

2000
01:24:59,450 --> 01:24:56,700
say your full name

2001
01:25:01,220 --> 01:24:59,460
oh absolutely no problem all right this

2002
01:25:02,330 --> 01:25:01,230
is Linda Zimmerman now we have someone

2003
01:25:04,850 --> 01:25:02,340
else calling and you're gonna have to

2004
01:25:07,760 --> 01:25:04,860
wait another caller Linda thanks for for

2005
01:25:10,790 --> 01:25:07,770
making the call unless I do have to take

2006
01:25:11,360 --> 01:25:10,800
this call in case it's our in case it's

2007
01:25:16,900 --> 01:25:11,370
our guest

2008
01:25:21,560 --> 01:25:16,910
certainly hang on just one minute okay

2009
01:25:25,510 --> 01:25:21,570
caller or what's your you have your you

2010
01:25:29,390 --> 01:25:25,520
have your radio on please turn that off

2011
01:25:32,270 --> 01:25:29,400
there you go sorry okay so this is not

2012
01:25:34,430 --> 01:25:32,280
this is not the guest would you mind

2013
01:25:37,660 --> 01:25:34,440
hanging up I have someone on right now

2014
01:25:39,910 --> 01:25:37,670
looks like our guest came back

2015
01:25:44,780 --> 01:25:39,920
everyone's coming back at the same time

2016
01:25:49,730 --> 01:25:44,790
so you're back what happened what

2017
01:25:53,510 --> 01:25:49,740
happened Todd I see your lips moving but

2018
01:25:57,640 --> 01:25:53,520
I'm not hearing you so you may have to

2019
01:26:02,870 --> 01:26:00,860
why don't you reboot your Todd why don't

2020
01:26:03,200 --> 01:26:02,880
you go ahead and reboot you're okay he's

2021
01:26:07,070 --> 01:26:03,210
gone

2022
01:26:08,570 --> 01:26:07,080
Linda now that I have you on thanks for

2023
01:26:11,510 --> 01:26:08,580
thanks for joining the call thanks for

2024
01:26:13,780 --> 01:26:11,520
filling in I appreciate that no problem

2025
01:26:17,450 --> 01:26:13,790
I actually do have an interesting

2026
01:26:19,940 --> 01:26:17,460
aviation-related case that someone just

2027
01:26:22,850 --> 01:26:19,950
sent me about two weeks ago Oh

2028
01:26:24,530 --> 01:26:22,860
so just to keep in mind just keep this

2029
01:26:27,170 --> 01:26:24,540
in mind Linda that our guests may call

2030
01:26:30,830 --> 01:26:27,180
in any minute so I would like to join in

2031
01:26:33,020 --> 01:26:30,840
the Omni yeah sure yeah no no I want

2032
01:26:34,940 --> 01:26:33,030
your say on though so because I want you

2033
01:26:40,040 --> 01:26:34,950
to talk about this with him as well so

2034
01:26:43,520 --> 01:26:40,050
go ahead well he was on a flight back

2035
01:26:46,880 --> 01:26:43,530
from Ghana in Africa she was there on

2036
01:26:50,570 --> 01:26:46,890
business she's a scientist so a very

2037
01:26:52,970 --> 01:26:50,580
credible person and she's looking out

2038
01:26:55,610 --> 01:26:52,980
the window and she sees that the night

2039
01:26:58,760 --> 01:26:55,620
flight she sees this beautiful what she

2040
01:27:02,120 --> 01:26:58,770
thought was the full moon and she had

2041
01:27:04,250 --> 01:27:02,130
two windows one over the wing one to the

2042
01:27:07,370 --> 01:27:04,260
right of that and she said it was just

2043
01:27:11,360 --> 01:27:07,380
the most stunning view of this full moon

2044
01:27:14,810 --> 01:27:11,370
and she's watching it for close to an

2045
01:27:18,410 --> 01:27:14,820
hour and then she sees watches as it

2046
01:27:21,320 --> 01:27:18,420
slowly sinks behind a cloud Bank and she

2047
01:27:23,390 --> 01:27:21,330
just she was so enamored with this she

2048
01:27:25,880 --> 01:27:23,400
remembers the next morning she emailed

2049
01:27:28,760 --> 01:27:25,890
her sister saying I just had the most

2050
01:27:31,460 --> 01:27:28,770
amazing experience this this fought the

2051
01:27:34,520 --> 01:27:31,470
light of this full moon well that night

2052
01:27:36,650 --> 01:27:34,530
she's home in New York and she's doing

2053
01:27:40,940 --> 01:27:36,660
some shores she looks out the window and

2054
01:27:45,020 --> 01:27:40,950
there's the crescent moon it was only an

2055
01:27:48,710 --> 01:27:45,030
8% crescent and she's like freaking out

2056
01:27:52,430 --> 01:27:48,720
how can this possibly be I just saw the

2057
01:27:56,360 --> 01:27:52,440
full moon on my flight yesterday so she

2058
01:27:58,040 --> 01:27:56,370
called me up knowing what I do and you

2059
01:28:01,280 --> 01:27:58,050
know I asked her a series of questions

2060
01:28:03,380 --> 01:28:01,290
well did you see any you know craters or

2061
01:28:06,320 --> 01:28:03,390
the the seas on the moon and she

2062
01:28:10,130 --> 01:28:06,330
realized she never saw any sort of

2063
01:28:13,760 --> 01:28:10,140
surface features just this beautiful

2064
01:28:16,190 --> 01:28:13,770
bright light tracking her plane for

2065
01:28:18,610 --> 01:28:16,200
almost an hour and this was the first

2066
01:28:20,990 --> 01:28:18,620
experience like this she ever had and

2067
01:28:24,980 --> 01:28:21,000
she she didn't quite know how to deal

2068
01:28:27,710 --> 01:28:24,990
with it so I said it wasn't threatening

2069
01:28:29,210 --> 01:28:27,720
you enjoyed it I think you should be

2070
01:28:32,930 --> 01:28:29,220
considered you know consider yourself

2071
01:28:33,570 --> 01:28:32,940
fortunate did she do you happen to know

2072
01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:33,580
if she

2073
01:28:38,580 --> 01:28:35,530
talk to anybody else on the was she

2074
01:28:38,580 --> 01:28:38,590
alone traveling alone

2075
01:28:43,230 --> 01:28:41,850
she was traveling alone yes and she

2076
01:28:45,690 --> 01:28:43,240
didn't mention it to any other

2077
01:28:48,300 --> 01:28:45,700
passengers and I asked if she took any

2078
01:28:51,060 --> 01:28:48,310
pics or pictures and she said well why

2079
01:28:55,050 --> 01:28:51,070
should I would you full-moon as far as

2080
01:28:58,710 --> 01:28:55,060
she yeah so I just thought that was

2081
01:29:00,990 --> 01:28:58,720
remarkable and I didn't I didn't see any

2082
01:29:04,380 --> 01:29:01,000
other cases over that part of the

2083
01:29:09,110 --> 01:29:04,390
Atlantic but it was the next night that

2084
01:29:13,860 --> 01:29:09,120
the Irish sightings took place mm-hmm so

2085
01:29:15,090 --> 01:29:13,870
you know not not really close I don't

2086
01:29:17,700 --> 01:29:15,100
know what track

2087
01:29:19,640 --> 01:29:17,710
they took but I would think from Africa

2088
01:29:24,300 --> 01:29:19,650
to New York didn't go anywhere near

2089
01:29:26,220 --> 01:29:24,310
Ireland but still something unusual was

2090
01:29:28,530 --> 01:29:26,230
certainly going on in the sky at that

2091
01:29:30,390 --> 01:29:28,540
time now Linda you've been a guest on

2092
01:29:32,670 --> 01:29:30,400
the show a number of times and and

2093
01:29:34,260 --> 01:29:32,680
you've become you know you've listened

2094
01:29:37,530 --> 01:29:34,270
to a lot of shows and you've helped me

2095
01:29:39,140 --> 01:29:37,540
out a number of times so if you want to

2096
01:29:43,260 --> 01:29:39,150
tell I'm just waiting to see if our

2097
01:29:47,120 --> 01:29:43,270
guest our guest is back certainly I will

2098
01:29:50,880 --> 01:29:47,130
hang well before you hang up before you

2099
01:29:52,170 --> 01:29:50,890
yeah Todd so you back I'm sure it was

2100
01:29:52,980 --> 01:29:52,180
the government that shut you down when

2101
01:29:55,620 --> 01:29:52,990
she said think so

2102
01:29:57,180 --> 01:29:55,630
must have been yes I'm former NSA yes

2103
01:29:58,590 --> 01:29:57,190
there's some sort of secret society I

2104
01:30:00,060 --> 01:29:58,600
should have paid the dues to but no I

2105
01:30:01,620 --> 01:30:00,070
didn't pay the dues and this is what I

2106
01:30:04,080 --> 01:30:01,630
get for that yeah that's that's right

2107
01:30:06,000 --> 01:30:04,090
that's right so we're on with Linda

2108
01:30:08,730 --> 01:30:06,010
Zimmerman she is a researcher in upper

2109
01:30:11,070 --> 01:30:08,740
state New York and has she was just

2110
01:30:13,650 --> 01:30:11,080
telling a tale briefly I'll just he'll

2111
01:30:17,310 --> 01:30:13,660
tell if you wanted to say hi to her this

2112
01:30:19,140 --> 01:30:17,320
person contacted her and saying they saw

2113
01:30:20,910 --> 01:30:19,150
they was watching the full moon for up

2114
01:30:25,610 --> 01:30:20,920
to an hour outside of their window of

2115
01:30:27,960 --> 01:30:25,620
their flight from Africa to New York and

2116
01:30:30,930 --> 01:30:27,970
when she got home she noticed that it

2117
01:30:33,150 --> 01:30:30,940
was a crescent moon so it was some type

2118
01:30:36,900 --> 01:30:33,160
of object she was looking at for up to

2119
01:30:38,730 --> 01:30:36,910
an hour interesting huh very interesting

2120
01:30:39,750 --> 01:30:38,740
we're talking from full moon what

2121
01:30:41,910 --> 01:30:39,760
appeared to be the full moon to a

2122
01:30:43,320 --> 01:30:41,920
crescent moon which means unless you had

2123
01:30:44,450 --> 01:30:43,330
some sort of missing time event it

2124
01:30:49,330 --> 01:30:44,460
wasn't a moon

2125
01:30:53,479 --> 01:30:49,340
major missing time like 30 days 20 days

2126
01:30:56,209 --> 01:30:53,489
so well Linda well I will let you get

2127
01:30:57,740 --> 01:30:56,219
back to your guests I'm enjoying what

2128
01:31:00,500 --> 01:30:57,750
you're saying thank you very much for

2129
01:31:02,450 --> 01:31:00,510
being on and enjoying the show it's

2130
01:31:03,260 --> 01:31:02,460
always Martin thank you Thank You Linda

2131
01:31:06,800 --> 01:31:03,270
I appreciate that

2132
01:31:08,689 --> 01:31:06,810
yeah all right all right so my palace

2133
01:31:10,939 --> 01:31:08,699
you see yourself and your guest for the

2134
01:31:13,610 --> 01:31:10,949
technical failure which was more my

2135
01:31:15,439 --> 01:31:13,620
fault I and my power cord was out and

2136
01:31:18,290 --> 01:31:15,449
the darn thing drained out without me

2137
01:31:19,610 --> 01:31:18,300
noticing hock words back in now okay I

2138
01:31:21,410 --> 01:31:19,620
probably should have went over

2139
01:31:22,970 --> 01:31:21,420
everything with you like that now just

2140
01:31:27,490 --> 01:31:22,980
don't I was wondering if it might have

2141
01:31:35,479 --> 01:31:30,470
don't repent that ya will not eat that

2142
01:31:37,430 --> 01:31:35,489
yeah so one more question had came in do

2143
01:31:39,550 --> 01:31:37,440
you think the recent incident over

2144
01:31:42,260 --> 01:31:39,560
Ireland that we were talking about

2145
01:31:44,030 --> 01:31:42,270
reported by the media that included

2146
01:31:46,630 --> 01:31:44,040
audio of the pilots conversation could

2147
01:31:49,760 --> 01:31:46,640
have only been released as a result of

2148
01:31:52,310 --> 01:31:49,770
this subject having more credibility in

2149
01:31:56,479 --> 01:31:52,320
what the listener is talking about is

2150
01:31:59,810 --> 01:31:56,489
you know the UFO field has has changed a

2151
01:32:01,820 --> 01:31:59,820
little bit since the the New York Times

2152
01:32:04,910 --> 01:32:01,830
article came out last year in December

2153
01:32:06,649 --> 01:32:04,920
and so what do you think about that

2154
01:32:09,350 --> 01:32:06,659
question do you think it you have always

2155
01:32:10,970 --> 01:32:09,360
have more credibility now with respect

2156
01:32:12,850 --> 01:32:10,980
to this particular case I don't believe

2157
01:32:14,780 --> 01:32:12,860
that enters into it at all because

2158
01:32:17,180 --> 01:32:14,790
thanks to the technology of the internet

2159
01:32:19,700 --> 01:32:17,190
and other changes in air traffic control

2160
01:32:21,770 --> 01:32:19,710
communication technology there are air

2161
01:32:24,620 --> 01:32:21,780
traffic control conversations that are

2162
01:32:27,140 --> 01:32:24,630
streaming live around the world as we as

2163
01:32:29,540 --> 01:32:27,150
we speak and being recorded by various

2164
01:32:31,610 --> 01:32:29,550
private individuals and groups to the

2165
01:32:34,430 --> 01:32:31,620
point that when an event happens let's

2166
01:32:37,130 --> 01:32:34,440
say for example a few weeks ago when the

2167
01:32:39,350 --> 01:32:37,140
airplane was still in Seattle there was

2168
01:32:40,550 --> 01:32:39,360
air traffic control conversations of

2169
01:32:42,919 --> 01:32:40,560
that that were released almost

2170
01:32:45,410 --> 01:32:42,929
immediately by various private groups I

2171
01:32:47,419 --> 01:32:45,420
believe that live atc was one of them

2172
01:32:48,740 --> 01:32:47,429
and this was without going through the

2173
01:32:51,080 --> 01:32:48,750
FBI without going through law

2174
01:32:53,240 --> 01:32:51,090
enforcement so I believe this was a case

2175
01:32:55,459 --> 01:32:53,250
with the Irish event as well that this

2176
01:32:57,259 --> 01:32:55,469
conversation was in the clear that is it

2177
01:32:59,509 --> 01:32:57,269
was picked up and

2178
01:33:03,559 --> 01:32:59,519
recorded on the fly and released that

2179
01:33:06,349 --> 01:33:03,569
way so what I think this is an indicator

2180
01:33:08,299 --> 01:33:06,359
of is in the future if there is some

2181
01:33:10,519 --> 01:33:08,309
sort of major event where there's air

2182
01:33:12,199 --> 01:33:10,529
traffic control conversation even if

2183
01:33:14,719 --> 01:33:12,209
it's an unexpected event in an obscure

2184
01:33:16,879 --> 01:33:14,729
part of the world that conversation will

2185
01:33:19,369 --> 01:33:16,889
be reported and will be out there sooner

2186
01:33:21,829 --> 01:33:19,379
than anything it's kind of it must be

2187
01:33:24,529 --> 01:33:21,839
kind of boring though to listen to I

2188
01:33:26,989 --> 01:33:24,539
mean for instance what is the pilots

2189
01:33:29,809 --> 01:33:26,999
famous saying there's twelve thousand

2190
01:33:31,759 --> 01:33:29,819
hours of boredom when one one second of

2191
01:33:33,349 --> 01:33:31,769
horror or something like that I don't

2192
01:33:37,579 --> 01:33:33,359
know exactly what the saying is but I've

2193
01:33:40,159 --> 01:33:37,589
heard it but people wouldn't really

2194
01:33:41,929 --> 01:33:40,169
notice you know you're saying it's

2195
01:33:43,309 --> 01:33:41,939
monitored but who do people really

2196
01:33:46,219 --> 01:33:43,319
listen to it I mean what are they

2197
01:33:47,779 --> 01:33:46,229
listening for there might be people out

2198
01:33:50,719 --> 01:33:47,789
there who are so in deviation they would

2199
01:33:53,089 --> 01:33:50,729
listen to it I'm not one up but this is

2200
01:33:55,789 --> 01:33:53,099
the kind of thing where again if some

2201
01:33:57,769 --> 01:33:55,799
newsworthy event happens in some area it

2202
01:33:58,879 --> 01:33:57,779
might be something where you know it

2203
01:34:00,529 --> 01:33:58,889
might have been recorded for several

2204
01:34:02,839 --> 01:34:00,539
hours and people go back and listen

2205
01:34:04,279 --> 01:34:02,849
closely to those recent recordings I see

2206
01:34:06,889 --> 01:34:04,289
if there's anything that stands out and

2207
01:34:08,659 --> 01:34:06,899
again this is air traffic control the

2208
01:34:10,879 --> 01:34:08,669
conversations only for example between

2209
01:34:12,379 --> 01:34:10,889
the aircraft and air traffic control the

2210
01:34:14,509 --> 01:34:12,389
internal conversations within the

2211
01:34:16,189 --> 01:34:14,519
cockpit would not be on this the

2212
01:34:17,809 --> 01:34:16,199
internal conversations within air

2213
01:34:19,549 --> 01:34:17,819
traffic control centers of the control

2214
01:34:21,409 --> 01:34:19,559
tower or what have you is not going to

2215
01:34:23,569 --> 01:34:21,419
be there either it's basically only the

2216
01:34:25,519 --> 01:34:23,579
radio communications and it only

2217
01:34:27,379 --> 01:34:25,529
includes voice it has includes the data

2218
01:34:33,319 --> 01:34:27,389
transmission that may be going on in the

2219
01:34:35,329 --> 01:34:33,329
background okay III understand I had I

2220
01:34:37,129 --> 01:34:35,339
had someone on I don't know a couple

2221
01:34:40,579 --> 01:34:37,139
years ago that was talking about drones

2222
01:34:43,129 --> 01:34:40,589
and she said that the government the US

2223
01:34:48,589 --> 01:34:43,139
government is installing a new type of

2224
01:34:51,319 --> 01:34:48,599
new type of tracking system and it's she

2225
01:34:53,089 --> 01:34:51,329
gave an enormous price tag it's just

2226
01:34:56,089 --> 01:34:53,099
anything you've heard about it's gonna

2227
01:34:58,189 --> 01:34:56,099
be a whole new way of tracking planes of

2228
01:35:01,129 --> 01:34:58,199
track well there is an old source

2229
01:35:03,409 --> 01:35:01,139
there's always an evolution going on

2230
01:35:05,839 --> 01:35:03,419
with respect to how the FAA does air

2231
01:35:07,669 --> 01:35:05,849
traffic control one of them that has

2232
01:35:10,279 --> 01:35:07,679
been going on for quite some time as

2233
01:35:10,790 --> 01:35:10,289
they move to what's called a dsb which i

2234
01:35:12,830 --> 01:35:10,800
used

2235
01:35:14,959 --> 01:35:12,840
the air crinimal taught my head but it's

2236
01:35:17,890 --> 01:35:14,969
basically a way of tracking aircraft

2237
01:35:20,750 --> 01:35:17,900
that's going to be relying less on

2238
01:35:23,890 --> 01:35:20,760
monitoring the transponder responses to

2239
01:35:26,359 --> 01:35:23,900
radar interrogations and more to do with

2240
01:35:28,549 --> 01:35:26,369
ongoing communication between the

2241
01:35:30,950 --> 01:35:28,559
aircraft and air traffic control centers

2242
01:35:32,870 --> 01:35:30,960
using satellites using ground stations

2243
01:35:34,790 --> 01:35:32,880
using a variety of means to get the

2244
01:35:37,310 --> 01:35:34,800
information between the airplane and air

2245
01:35:39,140 --> 01:35:37,320
traffic control and back you know that

2246
01:35:41,540 --> 01:35:39,150
the crash a few years ago where the

2247
01:35:43,790 --> 01:35:41,550
plane was just just vanished they had no

2248
01:35:45,649 --> 01:35:43,800
idea where it was and searched and

2249
01:35:46,629 --> 01:35:45,659
searched you know the one I'm talking

2250
01:35:50,569 --> 01:35:46,639
about

2251
01:35:52,700 --> 01:35:50,579
mh370 that's right okay so the of course

2252
01:35:54,709 --> 01:35:52,710
whenever something dramatic like that

2253
01:35:57,350 --> 01:35:54,719
happens conspiracy theories come out

2254
01:36:00,200 --> 01:35:57,360
everywhere about it and one of them was

2255
01:36:03,799 --> 01:36:00,210
up someone was touting online that it

2256
01:36:05,419 --> 01:36:03,809
was an alien abduction of course those

2257
01:36:06,950 --> 01:36:05,429
type of things come come up after a

2258
01:36:08,180 --> 01:36:06,960
while and if you look for him you can

2259
01:36:11,750 --> 01:36:08,190
find him

2260
01:36:13,939 --> 01:36:11,760
did in that situation I know they found

2261
01:36:15,919 --> 01:36:13,949
pieces of the airplane but that's highly

2262
01:36:19,850 --> 01:36:15,929
unusual that they they just absolutely

2263
01:36:21,830 --> 01:36:19,860
have you know it's off the radar and

2264
01:36:23,319 --> 01:36:21,840
gone well there's several things about

2265
01:36:25,549 --> 01:36:23,329
that event that are highly unusual

2266
01:36:27,350 --> 01:36:25,559
basically the early part of the flight

2267
01:36:31,370 --> 01:36:27,360
was quite normal those transiting from

2268
01:36:32,689 --> 01:36:31,380
libros kuala lumpur toward china and it

2269
01:36:36,950 --> 01:36:32,699
basically made a left turn over the

2270
01:36:39,200 --> 01:36:36,960
South China Sea and passing over some

2271
01:36:41,299 --> 01:36:39,210
areas including one one city that was

2272
01:36:42,890 --> 01:36:41,309
the maintenance base for Malaysia

2273
01:36:44,180 --> 01:36:42,900
Airlines so the speculation might have

2274
01:36:45,260 --> 01:36:44,190
been well maybe there was a problem

2275
01:36:47,359 --> 01:36:45,270
there trying to go to the maintenance

2276
01:36:49,220 --> 01:36:47,369
base the aircraft was painted by

2277
01:36:51,080 --> 01:36:49,230
military radar I believe in Thailand and

2278
01:36:53,419 --> 01:36:51,090
one other country as was going over that

2279
01:36:55,430 --> 01:36:53,429
part of Southeast Asia so they had some

2280
01:36:57,950 --> 01:36:55,440
tracking of it until it went out into

2281
01:37:00,200 --> 01:36:57,960
the Indian Ocean and basically the

2282
01:37:02,780 --> 01:37:00,210
direction it took was such that if you

2283
01:37:05,959 --> 01:37:02,790
want to find a lonelier less Traverse

2284
01:37:07,250 --> 01:37:05,969
part of the world you would could not do

2285
01:37:09,709 --> 01:37:07,260
much better than where this airplane

2286
01:37:11,660 --> 01:37:09,719
apparently ended up this is this is a

2287
01:37:14,060 --> 01:37:11,670
part of the world that is not heavily

2288
01:37:15,620 --> 01:37:14,070
traffic and ship traffic it was never a

2289
01:37:17,959 --> 01:37:15,630
hot spot during the Cold War

2290
01:37:20,060 --> 01:37:17,969
so unlike the North Atlantic between

2291
01:37:21,879 --> 01:37:20,070
North America and Europe you don't have

2292
01:37:23,800 --> 01:37:21,889
all sorts of

2293
01:37:26,649 --> 01:37:23,810
of sound equipment on the sea floor

2294
01:37:28,990 --> 01:37:26,659
listening for submarines cruise and that

2295
01:37:30,689 --> 01:37:29,000
sort of thing so the kind of military

2296
01:37:33,129 --> 01:37:30,699
presence you have in North Atlantic

2297
01:37:36,010 --> 01:37:33,139
where something explodes into order

2298
01:37:38,950 --> 01:37:36,020
it'll be heard that wasn't available in

2299
01:37:41,590 --> 01:37:38,960
the Indian Ocean and fortunately because

2300
01:37:44,200 --> 01:37:41,600
of the communication system that was on

2301
01:37:45,910 --> 01:37:44,210
the aircraft which was capable of

2302
01:37:49,450 --> 01:37:45,920
although they didn't have the system in

2303
01:37:51,220 --> 01:37:49,460
place to send regular technical

2304
01:37:54,310 --> 01:37:51,230
transmissions from the aircraft back to

2305
01:37:57,550 --> 01:37:54,320
home base there was basically a basic

2306
01:37:59,470 --> 01:37:57,560
once an hour signal that was deep doubt

2307
01:38:01,810 --> 01:37:59,480
from this airplane and the Inmarsat

2308
01:38:03,820 --> 01:38:01,820
system picking it up on their satellites

2309
01:38:06,910 --> 01:38:03,830
was able to they were able to later

2310
01:38:08,800 --> 01:38:06,920
figure out based on when these signals

2311
01:38:11,109 --> 01:38:08,810
arrive at the satellites they back

2312
01:38:14,890 --> 01:38:11,119
figured where this aircraft could have

2313
01:38:16,959 --> 01:38:14,900
been and they basically had it narrowed

2314
01:38:18,340 --> 01:38:16,969
to a strip of ocean that was an arc I

2315
01:38:20,709 --> 01:38:18,350
can't remember how many miles long but

2316
01:38:22,450 --> 01:38:20,719
basically an area of the ocean that was

2317
01:38:24,220 --> 01:38:22,460
roughly the size of Pennsylvania is

2318
01:38:26,470 --> 01:38:24,230
where they had been looking for the

2319
01:38:29,260 --> 01:38:26,480
aircraft a few months ago and didn't

2320
01:38:32,649 --> 01:38:29,270
find it yet but conspiracy theories

2321
01:38:35,729 --> 01:38:32,659
aside the best available evidence was

2322
01:38:38,109 --> 01:38:35,739
the Inmarsat signals that basically

2323
01:38:39,970 --> 01:38:38,119
specified a part of the Indian Ocean

2324
01:38:44,080 --> 01:38:39,980
where this aircraft might have stopped

2325
01:38:46,689 --> 01:38:44,090
fly Wow well that's yeah that's a real

2326
01:38:48,430 --> 01:38:46,699
mystery I heard something about the

2327
01:38:51,160 --> 01:38:48,440
possibility of the pilot may have had

2328
01:38:52,270 --> 01:38:51,170
some emotional issues but no one you

2329
01:38:56,140 --> 01:38:52,280
know I mean that may be another

2330
01:38:57,939 --> 01:38:56,150
conspiracy go ahead oh there were there

2331
01:38:59,620 --> 01:38:57,949
are four basic theories that came up

2332
01:39:01,180 --> 01:38:59,630
with based on the limited data that was

2333
01:39:02,470 --> 01:39:01,190
out there and these are the four

2334
01:39:04,990 --> 01:39:02,480
theories I had within a week or two of

2335
01:39:07,750 --> 01:39:05,000
this this plane disappearing one was a

2336
01:39:10,270 --> 01:39:07,760
an old-fashioned hijacking some outside

2337
01:39:12,520 --> 01:39:10,280
entity takes over the airplane second an

2338
01:39:13,990 --> 01:39:12,530
insider hijacking kind of like what

2339
01:39:16,510 --> 01:39:14,000
happened with the Germanwings aircraft

2340
01:39:18,220 --> 01:39:16,520
in 2015 I think it was where the pilot

2341
01:39:20,140 --> 01:39:18,230
locked out the other pilot and

2342
01:39:23,439 --> 01:39:20,150
deliberately crashed the airplane you

2343
01:39:25,270 --> 01:39:23,449
have a normal complex accident that is

2344
01:39:28,000 --> 01:39:25,280
the kind of accident that happens in

2345
01:39:30,100 --> 01:39:28,010
modern aviation and airliner aviation

2346
01:39:32,680 --> 01:39:30,110
where in spite of all the sophisticated

2347
01:39:35,140 --> 01:39:32,690
systems and procedures in place some

2348
01:39:35,529 --> 01:39:35,150
combination of events or situations took

2349
01:39:38,859 --> 01:39:35,539
play

2350
01:39:40,540 --> 01:39:38,869
where there was no real way to deal with

2351
01:39:43,740 --> 01:39:40,550
it there was no system in place there

2352
01:39:45,549 --> 01:39:43,750
was no procedure in place the crew did

2353
01:39:47,410 --> 01:39:45,559
everything they could to keep the

2354
01:39:48,490 --> 01:39:47,420
airplane in the air but didn't bother to

2355
01:39:49,750 --> 01:39:48,500
communicate with the outside world

2356
01:39:52,000 --> 01:39:49,760
because they were too busy trying to fly

2357
01:39:54,490 --> 01:39:52,010
the plane and the fourth one which is

2358
01:39:56,979 --> 01:39:54,500
basically you know these are not in

2359
01:39:58,779 --> 01:39:56,989
isolation I think it's a combination of

2360
01:40:01,299 --> 01:39:58,789
one of the first three plus the fourth

2361
01:40:04,959 --> 01:40:01,309
one the fourth one being at some point

2362
01:40:06,189 --> 01:40:04,969
during the flight the crew or whoever

2363
01:40:08,620 --> 01:40:06,199
was flying the aircraft was either

2364
01:40:10,180 --> 01:40:08,630
unwilling or unable to make any changes

2365
01:40:13,509 --> 01:40:10,190
to the flight control system or the

2366
01:40:15,279 --> 01:40:13,519
autopilot system and just kept flying at

2367
01:40:17,620 --> 01:40:15,289
a nice steady altitude nice steady speed

2368
01:40:18,759 --> 01:40:17,630
until it ran out of fuel oh boy that's

2369
01:40:21,970 --> 01:40:18,769
scary

2370
01:40:24,729 --> 01:40:21,980
all right so I do want to talk before

2371
01:40:26,919 --> 01:40:24,739
you your internet crashed your computer

2372
01:40:28,180 --> 01:40:26,929
crashed there we I did ask you the

2373
01:40:33,700 --> 01:40:28,190
question if you can talk a little bit

2374
01:40:36,100 --> 01:40:33,710
about stats how basically just throw

2375
01:40:39,450 --> 01:40:36,110
some figures out that you are aware of

2376
01:40:43,359 --> 01:40:39,460
first of all like how safe is flying

2377
01:40:46,600 --> 01:40:43,369
commercial for me well it's well safe at

2378
01:40:49,270 --> 01:40:46,610
glad you said the word safe safe is I

2379
01:40:50,770 --> 01:40:49,280
like beauty it's a subjective concept

2380
01:40:53,020 --> 01:40:50,780
that's in the eye of the beholder and

2381
01:40:54,700 --> 01:40:53,030
and depends on context

2382
01:40:57,819 --> 01:40:54,710
I've actually jumped out of an airplane

2383
01:40:59,859 --> 01:40:57,829
once as a skydiver and only once was it

2384
01:41:02,830 --> 01:40:59,869
safe I thought so otherwise I wouldn't

2385
01:41:04,569 --> 01:41:02,840
have done it was it risky much more so

2386
01:41:08,169 --> 01:41:04,579
than being a passenger in an airplane is

2387
01:41:10,149 --> 01:41:08,179
the risk acceptable it was to me at the

2388
01:41:12,310 --> 01:41:10,159
time which is why I thought it was safe

2389
01:41:13,930 --> 01:41:12,320
it was unacceptable to virtually anyone

2390
01:41:16,089 --> 01:41:13,940
with any sense and it would have been

2391
01:41:18,370 --> 01:41:16,099
considered to be an unsafe of that sorry

2392
01:41:22,149 --> 01:41:18,380
I'm having trouble understanding right

2393
01:41:24,370 --> 01:41:22,159
now please try again later is there a

2394
01:41:25,959 --> 01:41:24,380
way how difficult it is there is a kid

2395
01:41:31,089 --> 01:41:25,969
up here there is a way yeah not

2396
01:41:35,109 --> 01:41:31,099
difficult at all he's just saying one

2397
01:41:43,120 --> 01:41:35,119
key word there that's waking up waking

2398
01:41:46,060 --> 01:41:43,130
her up so poor Alexa all right we're

2399
01:41:55,270 --> 01:41:46,070
getting feedback now

2400
01:41:58,580 --> 01:41:55,280
all right okay we go problem solved

2401
01:42:00,380 --> 01:41:58,590
yeah okay you're back all right good how

2402
01:42:02,870 --> 01:42:00,390
many creases your guests have and he

2403
01:42:04,990 --> 01:42:02,880
can't get as a podcast gear to go go

2404
01:42:07,010 --> 01:42:05,000
straight what's wrong with this guy a

2405
01:42:09,770 --> 01:42:07,020
good thing you're not flying the plane

2406
01:42:12,890 --> 01:42:09,780
right yeah that's why I was an engineer

2407
01:42:16,010 --> 01:42:12,900
not a pilot Hey yeah so I've just

2408
01:42:18,380 --> 01:42:16,020
basically want to you know I mean I've

2409
01:42:21,290 --> 01:42:18,390
heard of people throw out things like

2410
01:42:22,700 --> 01:42:21,300
you know it's it's a you have much more

2411
01:42:24,410 --> 01:42:22,710
of a chance getting into an accident

2412
01:42:27,580 --> 01:42:24,420
going to the airport than you do flying

2413
01:42:32,090 --> 01:42:27,590
a plane and and you know millions of

2414
01:42:34,910 --> 01:42:32,100
planes are you know in the air per year

2415
01:42:37,160 --> 01:42:34,920
or all that stuff I mean at any given

2416
01:42:39,890 --> 01:42:37,170
time there's thousands of them tens of

2417
01:42:41,689 --> 01:42:39,900
thousands of them in the air right in

2418
01:42:43,310 --> 01:42:41,699
any given time during the main part of

2419
01:42:44,840 --> 01:42:43,320
the flying day there could be on the

2420
01:42:47,720 --> 01:42:44,850
order of nine thousand airliners flying

2421
01:42:50,720 --> 01:42:47,730
with like that million million to people

2422
01:42:52,189 --> 01:42:50,730
in the air constantly as we speak yeah

2423
01:42:54,560 --> 01:42:52,199
again we're talking about a situation

2424
01:42:57,229 --> 01:42:54,570
where you have tens of thousands of

2425
01:42:59,000 --> 01:42:57,239
aircraft airliner aircraft flying every

2426
01:43:01,910 --> 01:42:59,010
day around the world of course various

2427
01:43:03,439 --> 01:43:01,920
time zones and such assume that that you

2428
01:43:06,950 --> 01:43:03,449
know you have an average a passenger

2429
01:43:08,270 --> 01:43:06,960
load of 100 people depending on the time

2430
01:43:10,189 --> 01:43:08,280
of day you could have well over a

2431
01:43:14,890 --> 01:43:10,199
million and a half people airborne in

2432
01:43:18,050 --> 01:43:14,900
the sky the US 2017 according the FAA

2433
01:43:21,169 --> 01:43:18,060
passenger airlines only had about eight

2434
01:43:23,180 --> 01:43:21,179
point six million flights and this is

2435
01:43:25,970 --> 01:43:23,190
eight point six million flights over 365

2436
01:43:27,350 --> 01:43:25,980
days so we're talking about again tens

2437
01:43:29,570 --> 01:43:27,360
of thousands of flights per day and

2438
01:43:32,959 --> 01:43:29,580
sorry my calculator my head isn't quite

2439
01:43:35,870 --> 01:43:32,969
working right and so 8.3 million divided

2440
01:43:38,300 --> 01:43:35,880
by 365 that's how many we have going on

2441
01:43:40,910 --> 01:43:38,310
how many times is it result in a

2442
01:43:43,430 --> 01:43:40,920
disaster and a disaster in my book does

2443
01:43:48,200 --> 01:43:43,440
a single passenger get killed during the

2444
01:43:50,090 --> 01:43:48,210
flight well in 2018 or 2008 in this

2445
01:43:51,320 --> 01:43:50,100
country we actually had one happens for

2446
01:43:52,880 --> 01:43:51,330
the first time in a long time

2447
01:43:54,800 --> 01:43:52,890
there was a Southwest airliner flying

2448
01:43:57,330 --> 01:43:54,810
near Philly there was a rapid

2449
01:43:58,950 --> 01:43:57,340
decompression event which happened after

2450
01:44:01,770 --> 01:43:58,960
there was an uncontained engine failure

2451
01:44:03,840 --> 01:44:01,780
piece of the engine hit a window window

2452
01:44:05,310 --> 01:44:03,850
pops out unfortunately one passenger was

2453
01:44:07,830 --> 01:44:05,320
pulled out of the aircraft and ended up

2454
01:44:13,110 --> 01:44:07,840
dying that was the first passenger

2455
01:44:16,500 --> 01:44:13,120
fatality in the US on even a u.s. Wario

2456
01:44:18,950 --> 01:44:16,510
non-us airliner since 2013 that was the

2457
01:44:23,010 --> 01:44:18,960
event in San Francisco with the Asiana

2458
01:44:24,270 --> 01:44:23,020
777 and there you had roughly 99% of the

2459
01:44:27,150 --> 01:44:24,280
people survived there are three people

2460
01:44:29,610 --> 01:44:27,160
killed three hundred-plus roughly 300

2461
01:44:32,540 --> 01:44:29,620
people who survived that you would have

2462
01:44:34,950 --> 01:44:32,550
to go back to 2009 in the United States

2463
01:44:37,290 --> 01:44:34,960
for the last time you had an airliner

2464
01:44:39,030 --> 01:44:37,300
crashed killing everybody on board that

2465
01:44:41,670 --> 01:44:39,040
was roughly a month after the Miracle on

2466
01:44:43,560 --> 01:44:41,680
the Hudson event that I heard of the

2467
01:44:45,150 --> 01:44:43,570
movie Sully personally I haven't seen it

2468
01:44:47,970 --> 01:44:45,160
because I can't stand movies like that

2469
01:44:49,020 --> 01:44:47,980
go figure and no one got killed in the

2470
01:44:50,610 --> 01:44:49,030
Miracle on the Hudson

2471
01:44:53,490 --> 01:44:50,620
everyone got killed a few weeks later in

2472
01:44:55,730 --> 01:44:53,500
the Buffalo crash now around the world

2473
01:44:58,140 --> 01:44:55,740
the situation is not the same because

2474
01:45:00,570 --> 01:44:58,150
let's just say that the infrastructure

2475
01:45:02,880 --> 01:45:00,580
that other countries are using very

2476
01:45:05,790 --> 01:45:02,890
wildly Western Europe North America

2477
01:45:09,120 --> 01:45:05,800
Australia Japan they have all the latest

2478
01:45:11,400 --> 01:45:09,130
and greatest equipment in use they also

2479
01:45:12,810 --> 01:45:11,410
have the strictest regulations and the

2480
01:45:15,720 --> 01:45:12,820
regulations aren't very different

2481
01:45:18,660 --> 01:45:15,730
between international flying and

2482
01:45:21,870 --> 01:45:18,670
domestic flying without getting too fine

2483
01:45:23,940 --> 01:45:21,880
a point on it each nation is responsible

2484
01:45:26,520 --> 01:45:23,950
for the regulations they have within

2485
01:45:28,440 --> 01:45:26,530
that nation when it comes to flying when

2486
01:45:30,360 --> 01:45:28,450
it comes international flying there is a

2487
01:45:32,610 --> 01:45:30,370
set of standards that every nation

2488
01:45:34,320 --> 01:45:32,620
adheres to if you don't adhere to it

2489
01:45:37,020 --> 01:45:34,330
it's likely you won't get landing rights

2490
01:45:39,180 --> 01:45:37,030
in a second country so how the

2491
01:45:41,790 --> 01:45:39,190
International flying has a level of risk

2492
01:45:44,370 --> 01:45:41,800
that's I would say in a universally low

2493
01:45:46,350 --> 01:45:44,380
that is the likelihood of flying on a

2494
01:45:49,020 --> 01:45:46,360
flight that is an international flight

2495
01:45:51,510 --> 01:45:49,030
relatively low higher when it comes to

2496
01:45:53,460 --> 01:45:51,520
domestic flying yeah I know we're off

2497
01:45:55,590 --> 01:45:53,470
the UFO topic but I still want to just

2498
01:45:58,140 --> 01:45:55,600
get a little bit of this in and the

2499
01:46:01,530 --> 01:45:58,150
training that I had I remember you know

2500
01:46:03,480 --> 01:46:01,540
the the conception of ditching is you

2501
01:46:06,300 --> 01:46:03,490
know you land in water everything's cool

2502
01:46:08,820 --> 01:46:06,310
but it's not cool it's like you land in

2503
01:46:11,009 --> 01:46:08,830
water you it's something like 90% chance

2504
01:46:13,049 --> 01:46:11,019
that you're gonna not make it

2505
01:46:16,769 --> 01:46:13,059
you know funny I'm glad you mentioned

2506
01:46:18,750 --> 01:46:16,779
ditching because it also speaks to yeah

2507
01:46:21,029 --> 01:46:18,760
when it comes to anomalous events how

2508
01:46:23,339 --> 01:46:21,039
you define things will determine whether

2509
01:46:26,129 --> 01:46:23,349
or not you count something as being in

2510
01:46:27,750 --> 01:46:26,139
that category or would color your idea

2511
01:46:29,969 --> 01:46:27,760
of how often it happens I actually

2512
01:46:31,939 --> 01:46:29,979
looked up one day on the FAA website

2513
01:46:35,399 --> 01:46:31,949
what's the definition for ditching I

2514
01:46:37,079 --> 01:46:35,409
couldn't find one I thought this is a

2515
01:46:39,929 --> 01:46:37,089
basic concept I should see it me

2516
01:46:41,969 --> 01:46:39,939
Airmen's information manual or someone

2517
01:46:44,279 --> 01:46:41,979
of the glossary I couldn't find one so I

2518
01:46:46,829 --> 01:46:44,289
came up my own basically is there a

2519
01:46:47,250 --> 01:46:46,839
chance of someone drowning if the thing

2520
01:46:49,709 --> 01:46:47,260
sinks

2521
01:46:51,659 --> 01:46:49,719
now planes land in water all the time

2522
01:46:53,639 --> 01:46:51,669
running off the runway etc maybe it's

2523
01:46:55,799 --> 01:46:53,649
shallow water planes crashing water all

2524
01:46:58,289 --> 01:46:55,809
the time but very rarely do you have a

2525
01:47:00,659 --> 01:46:58,299
classic ditching that is the flight crew

2526
01:47:02,339 --> 01:47:00,669
deliberately says we're going to put

2527
01:47:03,299 --> 01:47:02,349
this airplane in the water and they put

2528
01:47:05,250 --> 01:47:03,309
it in the water yeah

2529
01:47:06,899 --> 01:47:05,260
the miracle on the Hudson was only the

2530
01:47:09,329 --> 01:47:06,909
fourth time I could find in the history

2531
01:47:12,269 --> 01:47:09,339
of jet aviation or that definition of

2532
01:47:13,739 --> 01:47:12,279
different ditching happened amazing we I

2533
01:47:15,329 --> 01:47:13,749
think we have about four minutes left

2534
01:47:19,139 --> 01:47:15,339
somewhere around there I want to talk

2535
01:47:20,789 --> 01:47:19,149
quickly about one other flight where

2536
01:47:23,179 --> 01:47:20,799
there's been a crash where there's been

2537
01:47:26,909 --> 01:47:23,189
a lot of conspiracy and that's flight

2538
01:47:30,059 --> 01:47:26,919
TWA with four minutes left TWA 800 off

2539
01:47:31,469 --> 01:47:30,069
of a Long Island there's been movies

2540
01:47:34,019 --> 01:47:31,479
written about it

2541
01:47:35,789 --> 01:47:34,029
you know lots of stories where people

2542
01:47:38,699 --> 01:47:35,799
think that was shot down possibly by

2543
01:47:42,299 --> 01:47:38,709
error from the military what what do you

2544
01:47:46,979 --> 01:47:42,309
know about that particular crash that

2545
01:47:48,239 --> 01:47:46,989
happened in July 17 1996 literally two

2546
01:47:51,359 --> 01:47:48,249
weeks of the day after I started air

2547
01:47:53,549 --> 01:47:51,369
safe calm real it so it was like a

2548
01:47:56,189 --> 01:47:53,559
real education there because I saw the

2549
01:47:58,500 --> 01:47:56,199
Internet in its infancy responding to

2550
01:47:59,519 --> 01:47:58,510
aviation crashes I was at Boeing safety

2551
01:48:01,469 --> 01:47:59,529
engineering at the time and our

2552
01:48:03,329 --> 01:48:01,479
department supported our field

2553
01:48:06,539 --> 01:48:03,339
investigator so we were in deep on that

2554
01:48:08,849 --> 01:48:06,549
one that was a subtle problem and to

2555
01:48:10,559 --> 01:48:08,859
make a long story short there was some

2556
01:48:13,139 --> 01:48:10,569
sort of fuel air mixture in the center

2557
01:48:15,089 --> 01:48:13,149
fuel tank that exploded prior to that

2558
01:48:17,219 --> 01:48:15,099
event the basic understanding the

2559
01:48:19,019 --> 01:48:17,229
industry was that it wasn't possible to

2560
01:48:21,259 --> 01:48:19,029
have a combination of temperature and

2561
01:48:23,909 --> 01:48:21,269
pressure and fuel density

2562
01:48:24,390 --> 01:48:23,919
aerosol density to cause an explosion

2563
01:48:27,090 --> 01:48:24,400
even if you

2564
01:48:29,130 --> 01:48:27,100
had a ignition source that was wrong

2565
01:48:31,229 --> 01:48:29,140
there was an underlying assumption when

2566
01:48:33,540 --> 01:48:31,239
it came to design of aircraft that was

2567
01:48:35,939 --> 01:48:33,550
proven wrong by that event subsequent

2568
01:48:38,220 --> 01:48:35,949
designs have taken steps to inert the

2569
01:48:40,500 --> 01:48:38,230
fuel or to take other steps to make that

2570
01:48:42,720 --> 01:48:40,510
kind of event not happen again so yeah

2571
01:48:44,550 --> 01:48:42,730
it was heavily investigated conspiracy

2572
01:48:48,320 --> 01:48:44,560
theories aside it was overwhelming

2573
01:48:52,070 --> 01:48:48,330
evidence that it was a accident due to a

2574
01:48:55,430 --> 01:48:52,080
not complete understanding of how

2575
01:49:02,610 --> 01:48:55,440
explosions happen in in a fuel tank

2576
01:49:06,300 --> 01:49:02,620
that's it's just well I guess we might

2577
01:49:09,810 --> 01:49:06,310
have a way to have a problem let me just

2578
01:49:13,110 --> 01:49:09,820
see we've had a few of them huh no

2579
01:49:15,540 --> 01:49:13,120
there's still ok it's on it just it just

2580
01:49:18,770 --> 01:49:15,550
went out a bit there but we're all set

2581
01:49:22,770 --> 01:49:18,780
we're gonna keep moving here whoops so

2582
01:49:25,860 --> 01:49:22,780
and if I may take 20 seconds to pull

2583
01:49:27,899 --> 01:49:25,870
that back into the UFO area yeah that

2584
01:49:29,820 --> 01:49:27,909
was a key for flight 800 there was a

2585
01:49:31,950 --> 01:49:29,830
concerted effort to actually use the

2586
01:49:33,720 --> 01:49:31,960
data that was out there do research on

2587
01:49:35,189 --> 01:49:33,730
the data that had been done before to

2588
01:49:37,410 --> 01:49:35,199
try and figure out what's the answer

2589
01:49:38,130 --> 01:49:37,420
this question what deck is it and how

2590
01:49:40,110 --> 01:49:38,140
did it happen

2591
01:49:42,330 --> 01:49:40,120
if you put that kind of effort even

2592
01:49:45,030 --> 01:49:42,340
one-tenth the effort toward resolving

2593
01:49:46,950 --> 01:49:45,040
things like the Irish event or the

2594
01:49:48,390 --> 01:49:46,960
Phoenix lights or the event that

2595
01:49:51,510 --> 01:49:48,400
happened recently in Northern California

2596
01:49:53,010 --> 01:49:51,520
in Oregon then there would be better

2597
01:49:55,890 --> 01:49:53,020
answers out there than what we have now

2598
01:49:59,430 --> 01:49:55,900
which is mostly speculation yeah right

2599
01:50:00,870 --> 01:49:59,440
well hey we're just about right at the

2600
01:50:02,939 --> 01:50:00,880
end of our show we have just about a

2601
01:50:05,370 --> 01:50:02,949
minute left here so I do want to thank

2602
01:50:07,919 --> 01:50:05,380
you so much for being on the show this

2603
01:50:11,370 --> 01:50:07,929
evening and so the name of your website

2604
01:50:13,290 --> 01:50:11,380
is air safe comms air safe calm your

2605
01:50:15,419 --> 01:50:13,300
location to go to for information of the

2606
01:50:18,600 --> 01:50:15,429
airline safety and security giving the

2607
01:50:20,160 --> 01:50:18,610
public good information since 1996 wow

2608
01:50:23,010 --> 01:50:20,170
that's a long time for a website to be

2609
01:50:26,700 --> 01:50:23,020
around it is very long time and I didn't

2610
01:50:28,800 --> 01:50:26,710
have gray hair back then all right well

2611
01:50:30,570 --> 01:50:28,810
it's been entertaining and thanks so

2612
01:50:32,340 --> 01:50:30,580
much oh just one other quick thing you

2613
01:50:34,830 --> 01:50:32,350
do a podcast there too as well sometimes

2614
01:50:37,050 --> 01:50:34,840
right on very rare occasions the

2615
01:50:39,150 --> 01:50:37,060
conversation that air safe calm

2616
01:50:41,040 --> 01:50:39,160
and as we spoke off the line earlier one

2617
01:50:42,540 --> 01:50:41,050
of these days soon I'll resurrect it for

2618
01:50:44,130 --> 01:50:42,550
the first time in several months they

2619
01:50:47,160 --> 01:50:44,140
have a certain former flight attendant

2620
01:50:49,530 --> 01:50:47,170
on my show all right sounds good

2621
01:50:52,380 --> 01:50:49,540
all right thanks a lot Todd thank you

2622
01:50:52,800 --> 01:50:52,390
all right okay everyone so that's it for

2623
01:50:55,380 --> 01:50:52,810
our show

2624
01:50:57,270 --> 01:50:55,390
and thank you so much for listening and

2625
01:50:59,880 --> 01:50:57,280
I thought it was fascinating hope you

2626
01:51:03,870 --> 01:50:59,890
enjoyed it too and we'll be back next

2627
01:51:06,660 --> 01:51:03,880
week with astronomer Mark D Antonio a

2628
01:51:07,890 --> 01:51:06,670
repeat guests always a lot of fun so

2629
01:51:10,170 --> 01:51:07,900
we'll be talking about all kinds of

2630
01:51:12,480 --> 01:51:10,180
things and back next week and thank you

2631
01:51:14,460 --> 01:51:12,490
everyone I appreciate it and thank you